@Xelnath About the possible changes for Lulu in the future.

First Riot Post
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OtherMaTwo

Junior Member

04-03-2014

Riot you shouldn't touch Lulu because she can go mid lane.
It's the same if I ask you why you left Annie to go bot support role.
Actually Annie does 75% of the damage on bot lane. The ad carry gets carried.
Annie support in late game turns into an Ap carry. Lulu in late game turns into an Ap support. Don't touch Lulu for a reason like that pls.


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace77 View Post
Speaking of nerfs... did alistar get his passive nerfed forever ago? cause... its kinda really terrible. or at least the damage portion is.
Yes, that happened. It was part of the package of nerfs designed to remove Alistar from the jungle in season 3.

I'm pretty sure Alistar will be getting a new passive in his eventual rework.


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Krys Star

Member

04-03-2014

I personally felt like the best way to hit Lulu would be to split her damage on Glitterlance across both bolts. Instead of one bolt doing all of the damage, have the player take the time and precision to hit both bolts, and get full damage off, or miss one bolt, do half the damage but still get the amazing slow off. That way both the Lulu and enemy player can have more interaction and counterplay instead of getting hit by one bolt, and getting the full frontal damage. That and hit the cooldown of her ult a bit, because it feels like it's up too often with Chalice.


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Your Highness View Post
I personally felt like the best way to hit Lulu would be to split her damage on Glitterlance across both bolts.
It's kind of a cool design concept, but this would be absolutely crushing for support Lulu in lane. Mid Lulu is often in a position to land both bolts on a target, but support Lulu is pretty much defined by E on support, Q onto carry.


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Zuphlas

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
We agree we failed to ensure that she was still equally as viable in her traditional role as a bottom lane Support for this patch.

We simply ran out of the normal amount of analysis time and data gathering we would need to accurately execute on this.
With all due respect, this is absolutely unacceptable. If you know you haven't finished the job (or ran out of time to finish it in this case) then you don't release something half done. To be clear, that's the kind of stuff that gets people fired in most industries. If you knew that you hadn't yet confirmed the effect these changes would have on her primary role then you should have held the changes back until the next patch. That's what really upsets me honestly. It's not even the fact that she got nerfed, annoying as that is, it's that you guys threw it out there without ensuring her primary role was unharmed.


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Kinaro

Senior Member

04-03-2014

I still think that if a champion is viable with and without gold it will always be a problem because there is nothing in which bot lane Lulu is stronger than mid lane Lulu, so why would anyone want to play a lower version of her?
That is of course only true with the current system, here is an idea that tries to fix that.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

04-03-2014
7 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
Hey Mystic Blue Fox and other Lulu players here,

Firstly, unfortunately I am not Xelnath.

Secondly, I'd like to say that we really appreciate the calm and constructive way you made this thread. Awesome.

...

Anyway, I know it was long, but I really wanted to address everything I've been reading / hearing. Once again, thanks a ton for the constructive posts.
For not being me, you do a damn fine job anyways, Statikk.

I want to echo his sentiments - these kinds of well-constructed and well-reasoned posts are super helpful.


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
A more holistic approach to fully solve the "Fighter" issue is to make our fighters have more defined strengths and weaknesses both in lane matchups and in overall team / game strategy, but that's a project that would take a long time to finish.
Since we don't know all the details, what are the bigger issues you have to deal with for fixing fighters?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
It's definitely something we're adopting much more as we have continued to grow and learn while working on LoL.

Sometimes we will have to outright push a champion out of an off-role because of the game health problems they present and the costs / tradeoffs we would have to make to their primary role to make the off-role healhty. We're definitely going to try much harder to find room for these off builds to work, but I can't promise that we will always be able to deliver on that.
Why not just let them migrate to that new role if that's where their biggest fans want to take them?

I mean if I'm having fun as Cass support or mid ashe or whatever, as are most cass/ashe players (just a random example I'm using) why not just let the change happen?


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Furi Kuri II

Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
For not being me, you do a damn fine job
Ya he did a good job with damage control, giving us BS reasons why you nerfed lulu, and gutted lulu support.


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MisterTitanic

Member

04-03-2014

xelnath, why do you guys think traditional supports like Janna, Sona, Lulu, Soraka are only cancerous in the mid lane?

Gold only amplifies how toxic a champion/role is, it doesn't create it.

The fact is when traditional supports exist, passivity increases. Non-interaction increases. Trading is disincentivized.

Also these toxic champions basically create an environment that invalidates melee champions. Janna basically invalidates any melee champion unless they have like 5 gap closers. Lulu kites you indefinitely. Sona to a lesser degree. Soraka with her infinite sustain when strong.

How are any of these good designs? Janna basically hard counters 1) melee 2) aoe