AP Ryze: Toggle the Mage!

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

LOL tbh, I think ryze needs a buff, he doesn't seem like an assassin category champion anymore, they nerfed him to mage/fighter status.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Wildstorm

Member

01-07-2010

You are severely gimping your aoe potential without taking spell flux. Spell flux + ult wins team fights.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fbsunny

Senior Member

01-07-2010

If you say that your a good Rhyze player, I don't know how you can think it is that hard to an enemy with spell flux more the once. Especially if your lane partner is singed, he throws your enemy away from enemy creeps right next to you, you use spell flux and it will automatically hit him 3 times.

Or if singed isnt there you open with overload, wait till he starts to run away from creeps, rune prison and then spell flux when no creeps are near.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbsunny View Post
If you say that your a good Rhyze player, I don't know how you can think it is that hard to an enemy with spell flux more the once. Especially if your lane partner is singed, he throws your enemy away from enemy creeps right next to you, you use spell flux and it will automatically hit him 3 times.

Or if singed isnt there you open with overload, wait till he starts to run away from creeps, rune prison and then spell flux when no creeps are near.
Whoa, i've never said I was a good ryze player, i'm good at other champions but ryze i'm just average.
Its not like anyone can be op with ryze anyhow, ever since they changed ryze i've seen very few playing him, and I never see them get good scores. good scores like getting fed, people who get fed are yi, twitch, eve, and shaco. those are the real assassin, they need to buff ryze to assassin status again.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Patyrn

Senior Member

01-07-2010

Quote:
Whoa, i've never said I was a good ryze player, i'm good at other champions but ryze i'm just average.
Its not like anyone can be op with ryze anyhow, ever since they changed ryze i've seen very few playing him, and I never see them get good scores. good scores like getting fed, people who get fed are yi, twitch, eve, and shaco. those are the real assassin, they need to buff ryze to assassin status again.


Ryze will destroy any of those champions 1v1 with ease. All he needs is a range increase so he's less at-risk in team fights. Run up, do ult prison flux overload and they are dead. I've killed two fed carries back to back as ryze.

Attachment 12166


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LackofCertainty

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

01-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
@lackofcertainty
I understand you don't want to sound condencending, but the fact that you say you don't want noobs using my guide is pretty much insulting.
Its open to the public to decide on wether or not these guides are helpfull, and I'd like you to at least try this method of mine with a pro singe partner. then tell me your experience, if you, nor him are getting kills something is definitly wrong.
1. I'm sorry if you felt my post was insulting, but I stand by it.

2. The public can and will decide whether your guide is helpful. I am also part of that public, and I believe that your guide is generally okay, but your skill build is flawed.

3. Just because you can get kills with a lane-mate using an inferior build doesn't make your build good.

For example...
If I make a guide for Annie that says:
"Don't take Annie's ultimate, instead max disintegrate and incinerate"

And defend it by saying:
"Well I play with such an awesome lane-mate that we get kills with this build anyway."

That would not be a valid guide. The point of a guide is to layout some of the best builds for a hero, so that people who are new to the champion can try out something that is guaranteed to be good.



I'm going to quote Patyrn's earlier post, because I feel that you skipped over the most important point in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patyrn View Post
Rank 1 Overload deals more damage than rank 1 spell flux unless it hits the same enemy 3 times.

Rank 1 Overload + rank 1 Spell flux deals more damage than rank 2 Overload ALWAYS and has the potential to do MUCH more.

I hate to say it, because a lot of things are all about preference, but it's a mathematical fact that one point in all 3 skills is superior burst AND dps. In fact, if your lane partner is singed then spell flux becomes even more amazing, because the -MR will buff poison damage, and singed's toss will probably get your target away from creeps so it bounces on the enemy multiple times.

Also, people are completely mistaken about Ryze's AP ratios in general. Spells that do damage in multiple hits have a low listed gain from AP, but you have to multiply it by # of hits. For example, I believe rune prison is a 2.4 AP ratio. The reason you build Ryze as CD reduction\penetration is that he has built in AP, so you can build to maximize on that. It's the same reason that champs like Mundo build AS or Crit for damage.

Your guide is for a Burst damage Ryze (aka a nuking ryze) but you're using a skill build that makes your Ryze worse at Burst Damage. (worse in every way, really)

The latest I could ever justify taking spell flux would be lvl 5, because if you don't have all three of Ryze's spell's when you get his ultimate, then you're only utilizing 2/3rds (actually less) of his ultimate.



One last edit: If you don't like Spell flux, that's fine. Take one level of it and then ignore it till you've maxed every other skill Ryze has, but completely ignoring spell flux until the end of the game is not a good skill build for Ryze. Suggesting that it is a good build will only confuse people who are new to the hero.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Raeden

Junior Member

01-08-2010

I'd just like to say that I've been using the other Ryze build (low AP, High CRD) since I started playing Ryze and love it. A couple things I would like to point out with the build you've posted.

- From playing Ryze and going up against other Ryze's not having that CDR is a huge hindrance. Early game I'm a lot "squishier" until I pick up the frozen heart. The lack of CDR that your build suggests would mean that you're only good for a quick gank. After the inital attack you're just auto-attacking and hoping that you survive long enough for your rotaition to be up again. Granted, with your build you will have a much higher burst at lower levels, but once you reach 10 or 12, a low AP build will do far more damage as they can spam their spells much easier.

- I never played Ryze before he was changed so I'm not sure how he was played, but from what I've heard AP was a much better use then. I've gone up against a few other Ryze characters that spec for AP and I must say, they drop pretty quickly.

- Just from my observations, if you don't pick up any CDR then you better hope you drop someone fast, and you can't take on more than one champ at a time.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Raeden

Junior Member

01-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildstorm View Post
You are severely gimping your aoe potential without taking spell flux. Spell flux + ult wins team fights.
Agree with this 100%. You can reduce an entire team to bare minimum health between ulti and spell flux. I might not have the most kills on my team, but I guarantee that I have the most damage done.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

T0ggle

Member

01-08-2010

Thats great that you guys feel that way about spell flux, ive tested this build with some pro singe buddys who felt the same way about your opinions. But then when me and singe started killing, they changed their mind about how my build "sucks", it doesn't suck nessecarily, its still good, both builds have their place but in the end at higher levels it won't matter because eventualy I grab spell flux.
The fact that you actualy got fed as ryze that game suprises me, because i've never seen that happen with new ryze. congrats you have my props, but i continue to stand by this build because its another method of using ryze.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jedo

Senior Member

01-08-2010

i like your guide, although i do have a few things to comment on

#1

Quote:
Originally Posted by T0ggle View Post
Thats great that you guys feel that way about spell flux, ive tested this build with some pro singe buddys who felt the same way about your opinions. But then when me and singe started killing, they changed their mind about how my build "sucks"
it's possible that it was just you playing exceptionally well when your friends changed their mind instead of the build working its magic

the build build does not make the man, the man makes the build


#2

if you, by any chance, change your guide based on everyone's suggestions (many of which have valid reasoning behind them) and it does end up being similar to other people's guides.. then i'd like to say... there's nothing wrong with having a similar guide to someone else.. so long as you don't leave it that way..

as far as i've seen.. most guides (even the best of the best) will always have room for improvement

this, of course, is just my opinion

#3

i also believe that spell flux is the way to go (based on what i've read from other's comments) ONLY BECAUSE i have yet to see your theory based argument on why ignoring spell flux early game is better than the spell flux + overload combination (aside from mana cost.. since were talking about burst damage here)

so far the only explanations i have read from the thread that support this is from you testing it out with friends or lane partners

which can once again mean that it's just you playing really good and not due to the build itself

-edit-

i just wanted to add that i am not a ryze player.... and i am also not a high elo player

which is why everything i posted here is based off of what i've read in this guide so far