AP Ryze: Toggle the Mage!

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IceDive

Senior Member

01-07-2010

T0ggle, I feel like you don't really respond to criticism on your build.

Inept starts about the AP-scaling, and instead of giving a counterarguement, you kind of start to whine. (apparently you two have some history, but still, he may have a valid point. As a beginner, i'd like to see this poitn discussed)

Patyrn states that an extra point will get you better farming abillity and more nuking power. Especially with your AP build, this seems to be very true to me. The nuking-argument you give seems invalid to me, since the .5 seconds it costs to cast really aren't going to make the difference, sertainly with rune prison and exhaust in the mix. So I think you really need to come up with a better argument here.

That being said, I do appreciate the time you spent on writing a guide. Just think you need to be a little more open to critisicm, and give more solid coutnerarguments.

Edit: Since you have TotG in this build, and building for AP, it seems to make sense to get Archangel's Staff quite soon since it will give you about 90 AP for about 1900 gold. Maybe i misread and it's there in the guide, but I didn't see it being mentioned


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T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

I reply to critism the way they deserve to be replyd to, I use to take it like "oh you don't agree with my build fine, i'll give you an answer as to why my build is good and give you my reasons to back them up"
But after awhile, it just got out of hand.

go to my shaco guide here
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...=25473&page=12
I'm done, im so done.
Its constant attacks on my personality, image, everything.
If you use the words whine, thats goes to show your within the ages of 14-17, and you could be a potention ass that I have to deal with.
So before this gets out of hand, either you can play the good guy, say nice things, or your offensive content will be reported.

If you, like inept, believe my guides are bad, post one post and be done, don't constantly say its bad over and over with no real proof at all.
Post your opinion and get it over with, otherwise I will treat you like I do all flamers.

Good day to you my good chum, i'm about to give up on this forum entirely, if the community really wants me to keep making them guides, they have to start rating and posting their thoughts, not just telling me ingame "loved your guide, keep it up"


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IceDive

Senior Member

01-07-2010

Did you really take the time to read my entire post? Yes, I do mention the word whine, but my english is imperfect, and I couldn't think of a better word that fast. Maybe, "getting overly deffensive and not going into the content of the critique" would have been better. Didn't mean to offend you, sorry if I did. But the way you react to my reply is much closer to trolling than my reply (just my opinion of course).

Furhter more, I take the trouble to think about your build and give my two cents on it, and all you give me in return is a threat to report me. I understand it's very frustrating to put time in these things and get those kind of reactions, but I'm not one of the bad guys here. I never say your build is bad, I just have some critisicm/questions. I hope you can respond the content of my reply, instead of the maybe little to harsh way i put it.

Cheers


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Stimraug

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Senior Member

01-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by badnutz View Post
I'm not seeing anything really different in this guide than any others. And your kinda spamming the boards with your not very helpfull copy/paste in the blanks guides. Please, give it a rest. At least you didn't start off with saying "your friends wanted you to write it" this time...
If this guide is not for a pro like you, please go home and cry. No, not on the forums, in the corner.


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T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceDive View Post
Did you really take the time to read my entire post? Yes, I do mention the word whine, but my english is imperfect, and I couldn't think of a better word that fast. Maybe, "getting overly deffensive and not going into the content of the critique" would have been better. Didn't mean to offend you, sorry if I did. But the way you react to my reply is much closer to trolling than my reply (just my opinion of course).

Furhter more, I take the trouble to think about your build and give my two cents on it, and all you give me in return is a threat to report me. I understand it's very frustrating to put time in these things and get those kind of reactions, but I'm not one of the bad guys here. I never say your build is bad, I just have some critisicm/questions. I hope you can respond the content of my reply, instead of the maybe little to harsh way i put it.

Cheers
Thats what I like to hear, just ask some questions and I'll do my best to give you the answer your looking for.


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LackofCertainty

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Member

01-07-2010

I have to agree with the earlier posters that taking one level of spell flux (at least) is necessary. In order to back up this opinion, I'll crunch some numbers for you.


Spell Flux:
Damage: 50/70/90/110/130 (50 damage + 20 per level)
Ap ratio: .33 (this is static for all spells, and doesn't improve with leveling)
Note: Bounces up to 6 times, and applys a -15 mr debuff for 5 seconds on each bounce. (can stack up to 5 times)

Overload:
Damage: 70/105/140/175/210 (70 damage +35 per level)
Ap ratio: .45 (this is static for all spells, and doesn't improve with leveling)
Note: Also adds 10% of your max mana as damage. (this is static, and doesn't improve with leveling)


Now, to prove that taking a level of spell flux is better than having one more level of Overload, allow me to list some examples.

You build with no cooldown reduction, so say you're only able to cast overload once, as a "burst damage" ryze. Okay, so we'll compare the effect of casting a lvl 2 overload, compared to casting a lvl 1 overload and a lvl 1 spell flux.


Lets assume you have...
100ap
1000 mana

Lvl 2 overload does 250 damage (105 + 45 from ap + 100 from mana)

Lvl 1 Overload does 215 damage (75 + 45 from ap + 100 from mana)


Now... level 1 spell flux does 83 damage... if you only hit once with it. (50 + 33 from ap)

If your goal is to drop an enemy as fast as possible, why would you cast one spell to do 250 damage, when you could cast two and do (at least) 298? This is not even mentioning the fact that Spell flux has waaaay more synergy with Ryze's ultimate than Overload does. Bouncing damage/debuff spell that now also does a big AoE on each bounce? Deadly.

The only downside to casting the two spells is that you'll burn through your mana faster, but if you're playing a burst damage Ryze, then you need to be able to throw out as much damage as possible as quickly as possible.



I would suggest switching your skill build to:

1. Overload
2. Rune prison
3. Spell Flux
4. Overload
5. Overload
6. Desperate Power (and then rank them up in the Desperate power > Overload > Rune Prison > Spell flux order)


If you find that you need your rune prison duration to hold a person long enough to drop them with burst damage, then instead maybe try:

1. Overload
2. Rune Prison
3. Rune Prison
4. Spell flux
5. Rune Prison
6. Desperate Power (and then Desperate Power > Rune Prison > Overload > Spell Flux)


For my personal build of Ryze, though, I always go with:
1. Spell flux
2. Rune Prison
3. Overload
4. Rune Prison
5. Rune Prison
6. Desperate Power and then Desperate Power > Rune Prison > Spell Flux > Overload

Most of Overload's damage comes from its ap gain and it's 10% max mana, more than it's actual +damage/level, so I typically find that Overload is a 1 point wonder for most of the game.


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IceDive

Senior Member

01-07-2010

1
My most important question is, I guess, why not get Archangel's Staff if you build for AP and already have tear?


2
Why don't you think that it's better to get at least 1 point in spell flux? Imo it makes ryze a betetr farmer and it will increase your burst damage since you will utilize your AP more and without CDR, you will need to cast a lot of different spells. (also works better with ryze's passive)


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T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceDive View Post
1
My most important question is, I guess, why not get Archangel's Staff if you build for AP and already have tear?


2
Why don't you think that it's better to get at least 1 point in spell flux? Imo it makes ryze a betetr farmer and it will increase your burst damage since you will utilize your AP more and without CDR, you will need to cast a lot of different spells. (also works better with ryze's passive)
1.Tear takes awhile to get maxed, and by the time I get archangels staff I always never get tear maxed, no matter how much spells I spam. also, i've had to report to the bugs forum that theres an issue with the staff that its not letting you gain mana on spell cast. this has happend to me a lot lately and has become a huge issue.

2.I believe that with a burst damage overload, I can harass with overload because of the low mana cost for good damage. I don't have to worry about hoping my spell flux hits the enemy 3 times from bouncing off minions.
The snare for 2 seconds however, allows my teamate and me to nock him out before or 2-3seconds after its duration is over. My snare is basicly considered Go time for my teamate in the bush, and after i've done harassing with overload enough hes not going to survive.
This build does work, i've tested it many times.


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T0ggle

Member

01-07-2010

@lackofcertainty
Your idea is good and proves a valid point, but that would most likely make my guide end up way to similar to the other ryze guide.
The way my build now isn't just unique, its a bit more challenging to master, and I love a good challenge.
Sorry I couldnt make my guide the way you wanted it to be, but thanks for the good input.


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IceDive

Senior Member

01-07-2010

1
Are you 100% sure that you didn't already max tear in those cases? Because AS has the same 600 mana limit you already had on tear... Think about it, I can imagine not maxing tear has something to do with only using 2 skills. (i presume ulti doesn't trigger tear, but i'm far from sure)

2
I see your point, but I find LackOfCertainty's argument more convincing. Not saying this build doesn't work, I just think 1 point in spell flux would make it better.


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