Can we nerf Heimer on dominion?

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The Red Warden

Senior Member

03-19-2014

Heim is wrecked hard by stealth champs like Twitch.


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Koravel

Senior Member

03-20-2014

Is Heim one of those champions that actually does need a nerf because of his stomping of lower elos?

Like, just like we dont want Shaco running around destroying everything at any elo, we dont want Heimer to be ridiculously strong at any elo.


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Nexus Crawler

Senior Member

03-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koravel View Post
Is Heim one of those champions that actually does need a nerf because of his stomping of lower elos?

Like, just like we dont want Shaco running around destroying everything at any elo, we dont want Heimer to be ridiculously strong at any elo.
I could see him being an issue in low elo games. Most of the low Elo streamers I've watched had teams who liked to push waves, or just throw themselves at a point whether there's defenders there or not. I don't personally see this as an issue with Heimi though, since if you nerf him for people playing badly then you only hurt Heimi, and probably only reinforce the belief that what they're doing is right.


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MonsterSS4

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Senior Member

03-20-2014

@.@, ppl seem to forget just how eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasy it is to kill his basic turrets and if your some sort of ad even his "ultified" turret is easy to remove, and all that without possible commitment.


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Nexus Crawler

Senior Member

03-20-2014

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Originally Posted by MonsterSS4 View Post
@.@, ppl seem to forget just how eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasy it is to kill his basic turrets and if your some sort of ad even his "ultified" turret is easy to remove, and all that without possible commitment.
This isn't the point, but speaking to this a good Heimi will likely make you take a lot of unnecessary damage while clearing them. This is of course situational on the match up but can be irritating to say the least.

Your better option is to just force him off a nest which limits the number of turrets/damage/defence he's established and then you can much more easily deal with him.

Personally I don't think Heimi is a huge deal despite having (thanks to konf) basically the highest mage damage in the game since there's quite a bit of counter play open against him. However I can see it being a large deal in lower Elo's who don't know how to capitalize on weaknesses. Then it could be quite frustrating.

I don't however want to see a champion blungeoned to death with the dreaded nerf hammer into oblivion. By doing this you're using positive reinforcement towards people who are mindlessly pushing minions to a turret held by Heimi and feeding him gold while wasting time and doing nothing. The better option is to show them how to deal with the champion and positively reward them with results of this learning experience. This encourages smarter play on their parts which when considering positive reinforcement should help raise the average player-bases skill level.


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Koravel

Senior Member

03-20-2014

Nerf is kinda the wrong word anyway, when we're talking about fixing a pubstomper who isnt an issue at high elo. More like- a redirection of power. To be fair though, I do feel that Heimer is very strong, even at high elo. Nerf worthy? Not sure. But he is very very strong. Being forced to abandon a point that has an entrenched Donger on it is a rather large waste of time.


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Nexus Crawler

Senior Member

03-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koravel View Post
Nerf is kinda the wrong word anyway, when we're talking about fixing a pubstomper who isnt an issue at high elo. More like- a redirection of power. To be fair though, I do feel that Heimer is very strong, even at high elo. Nerf worthy? Not sure. But he is very very strong. Being forced to abandon a point that has an entrenched Donger on it is a rather large waste of time.
True enough. I hadn't considered the strategic ramifications of that as well. Having Heimi entrenched on a point sort of funnels options. This allowing for easier control of their opponents; which is a huge advantage in and of itself.

I tend to use nerf as a blanket term, refering to a change that brings a negative or a net equivalent/gain with more work. For instance Ahri technically had a power shift with her minor rework, but due to it increasing her skill cap so for simplicity sake I just say nerf (or some times a more elaborate; on the receiving end of a game of whack-a-mole with the nerf happy wiffle bat).


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FDru

Senior Member

03-20-2014

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Originally Posted by Koravel View Post
Being forced to abandon a point that has an entrenched Donger on it is a rather large waste of time.
Yeah, as opposed to a Leona, or Alistar, who are much harder to kill? Heimer can camp a turret but that won't save him from a good gank... it's players who try to slowly push that get punished hard because they waste so much time losing the game before finally reaching the turret just to not capture it.

Heimer is not strong at high elo. Heimer has lost every tourney match I've seen him in, and hard. I rarely see him in solo queue, because I guess people figured out that his counters are numerous and universal (anyone can instakill his turrets and dodge his abilities). He doesn't deserve nerfs because bad players don't realize that slowly pushing lanes is dumb. Knowledge of basic Dominion strategy just needs to be drilled into peoples' skulls.

tl;dr: something bad sitting on a turret making it hard to cap? Go somewhere else, idiot.


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Rachael Passive

Senior Member

03-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koravel View Post
Nerf is kinda the wrong word anyway, when we're talking about fixing a pubstomper who isnt an issue at high elo. More like- a redirection of power. To be fair though, I do feel that Heimer is very strong, even at high elo. Nerf worthy? Not sure. But he is very very strong. Being forced to abandon a point that has an entrenched Donger on it is a rather large waste of time.
^ this, as a person who plays in low elo, he is a huge pain in low elo since his weakness (getting ganked), doesn't happen in low elos, so you just end up getting your **** pushed in all day. There are champion counters to him, but it is blind queue so there is no way to know if he is going to be in a game or not. This is talking about bot lane heimer btw


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Koravel

Senior Member

03-20-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
Yeah, as opposed to a Leona, or Alistar, who are much harder to kill? Heimer can camp a turret but that won't save him from a good gank... it's players who try to slowly push that get punished hard because they waste so much time losing the game before finally reaching the turret just to not capture it.

Heimer is not strong at high elo. Heimer has lost every tourney match I've seen him in, and hard. I rarely see him in solo queue, because I guess people figured out that his counters are numerous and universal (anyone can instakill his turrets and dodge his abilities). He doesn't deserve nerfs because bad players don't realize that slowly pushing lanes is dumb. Knowledge of basic Dominion strategy just needs to be drilled into peoples' skulls.

tl;dr: something bad sitting on a turret making it hard to cap? Go somewhere else, idiot.
The difference being, a good pair of players can alternate caps on a Leona/Alistar. Will it take time? Yes. Will they routinely and easily get double kills? No.

I have only once seen Heimer in a tourney match bot lane, and he crushed his opponent, (Swain). Although his team lost, it was not his fault.