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Why don't we have ranked FAQ

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Paqi

Senior Member

03-16-2014

Making this thread to link to when this question periodically pops up. I'm guessing at the numbers off the top of my head, and when I have time to look up the red posts, I'll link to them here. (Or, if someone finds them for me, I'll update this )

So why doesn't Dominion have ranked?

The Dominion community is a tiny fraction of the LoL community (Riot hasn't given us any numbers, to my knowledge, that says just how small we are). One of many reasons they're hesitant to put in ranked matches is the fear that it would break up this already small player-base, and make even the blind-pick queue times take unbearably long.

On top of this, as Gungho Gun Lion points out below, this map, and especially the champions on this map, are no where close to being balanced enough for serious competitive play. The tiny group of people that play in the weekly tournaments are playing in-spite of this issue they all acknowledge to be true.

But if you had Ranked Dominion, more people would play!

Likely not true. The vast majority of LoL players (for all map modes) do NOT play ranked. The LoL community is 27 million players or so, and 1% or less of those players play ranked. The fact that this sentiment is so common here makes it easy to believe everyone feels this way, but on top of Dominion being a niche community, the sub-group that frequents the forums is even smaller, and likely make up the tiny fraction of players that actually care about ranked.

What about Riot's promise, when this map was released, that ranked-queues were coming soon, and that all they needed to do was "flip-a-switch"? Were they lying then? Are they lying now?

Quote:
Paqi:
To my knowledge, no one at Riot has said that it's difficult, code-wise, to enable ranked queues in Dominion. It likely really is as easy as "flipping a switch". They're not doing it primarily because of the reasons in the OP, and also for the reasons GungHo Gun Lion pointed out (his map and champions on this map aren't yet properly balanced.) It's pretty absurd to think that they're "lying now".

So why did Riot make this claim years back? My best guess:

How many people here understand that Dominion is a fundamentally different type of game than SR, and attracts a different player-base? Riot didn't understand this when they released this map, and I assume they were caught off guard when the play-rate on this map started free-falling. I assume the rate in which players stopped playing this map is similar to the rate in which players stop playing the featured game-modes after the novelty wears off.

When Riot made the promise that ranked would be coming "soon", they likely didn't think the popularity of the map would fall so dramatically, despite their initial efforts to support the map. After usage dropped below a certain point, Riot's senior management made the poor decision to outright ignore the map for a while and refocus on SR, leading to the death of the draft queue and a number of other issues.

Perhaps they assumed the map was just going to quietly die off, and were just going to let it die. They were, again, caught off-guard by a bad assumption, this time of the existence of a sub-community that was really passionate about the map. We probably convinced them to not to outright abandon the mode, leading to the paltry bit of support we have now. In any case, we're still extremely far from the conditions they were originally waiting for to "flip the ranked switch".



This post is a work in-progress, I'll be updating it.


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Gungho Gun Lion

Senior Member

03-16-2014

Answer for every question. Ranked would increase popularity but it wouldn't be "Good" in its current state I'd rather have more map balancing and more changes before we get ranked

Trust me i was a strong believer in ranked and then i realized how bad it would be right now


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Romantic Metro

Senior Member

03-16-2014

I would rather have both. You can't just simply balance a mode. All we're really doing is developing dominion more. So after a certain point of development I'm hoping we just flip the switch. It's not like this map is that far off. There's still a bunch more champions that are viable in dominion than SR at this moment. It's more just getting itemization that's better and then toning some outlier champions. At that point there really wouldn't be much excuse for not having ranked. At least from a mechanical standpoint the map would be fine enough for ranked. Then it's just about getting exposure and knowledge on how the mode is played.

But yea I would take both, at the same time, that's what she said.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

03-16-2014

Not sure why Paqi is getting downvoted. He's right, and it's what Riot thinks. And a few threads are fine but we get a pretty steady trickle of them.


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Nexus Crawler

Senior Member

03-16-2014

Actually the subset of dominion players seem to be the type of players attracted to more of a competitive environment. Saying that less than 1% will play ranked is a bit naive since you're basing the number off of a number given for a different game mode that attracts a different variety of people.

Sadly put most of the competitive gamers who try dominion and get out of MMR hell tend to like the competitive environment more than SR's. Likely a higher % of dominion players would play ranked than in other modes. It could also help bring back a lot of the bleeders who left for that very reason. Of course that's speculation and there's another variable in that the time frame of them quitting they outright just moved on.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

03-16-2014

Okay, fine, 5%. 10%. 20%. In any case, unless that number is close to 100%, you just had riot spend (and I quote Nome) "several weeks worth of effort across multiple teams" for a queue that will die within weeks of creation. With how little attention we get, I'd rather see a spike in actual map changes.


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Nexus Crawler

Senior Member

03-16-2014

And I didn't say turn it on either. I know as well as most what we really need are improvements and PR to get more people involved with the mode. Part of that PR could even be some sort of counter on how many people are playing dominion a goal number and then if this happens and you want it we'll work on getting you that ranked ASAP!


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Kaiseresc

Senior Member

03-16-2014

Basically: Dominion is set to die. Not worth it to even have ranked. Won't have bigger balancing changes because there isn't enough people. Won't have ranked because there isn't enough people. Self-destruction engaged.
[/Doomsayer]


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TechPrince

Senior Member

03-16-2014

Its a deadlock.


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GET REKT FGT

Senior Member

03-16-2014

Quote:
Paqi:


So why doesn't Dominion have ranked?

The Dominion community is a tiny fraction of the LoL community (Riot hasn't given us any numbers, to my knowledge, that says just how small we are). One of many reasons they're hesitant to put in ranked matches is the fear that it would break up this already small player-base, and make even the blind-pick queue times take unbearably long.


I really hope people understand business-speak and what this means. They are smoke-screening their true reasons for not implementing Ranked, and it's not because what is considered a small player base would break up... they would have to factor:

(1) the numbers of those who would want to play ranked in another format other than Summoner's Rift/Twisted Treeline but have nowhere else to go so that they play those exclusively...and they don't have those numbers,

(2) the number of prospective/new players who would prefer to stick with their main product or try their "other" product in ranked flavor (because there are some that play TT exclusively that don't touch SR for even more specific factors such as less than 5 friends, faster-paced, boredom, etc. so there's a community out there that hasn't been factored in at all when they make this claim or even could be factored), and

(3) the number of players who have quit -- and would return or simply quit for this reason alone -- due to lack of a hard method to chart their progress, ranked or not (notice how when Jabebot was taken out of the equation the number of players began to steadily decline).

When it comes down to it, it's simply opportunity costs; Riot dropped the ball and have admitted doing so, and now when these things would actually matter even more for the life of this game mode, the risks now outweigh the opportunity costs for them. Think about it; the percentage of people who play SR Ranked is definitely small based by their own admission yet obviously it has ranked. Twisted Treeline has ranked, and as much as they say that it was grandfathered into having ranked that this really doesn't mean anything considering they can disable/enable ranked for TT and had done so during its insurrection, even knowing the Balance issues of it.

Even if the playerbase was somehow "broken", you'd have to take into account the exodus of new players that would replace those who would leave for Ranked Dominion, those who would then play in hopes of becoming good enough to play Ranked Dominion, and those who would continue to play it casually. Given the number of players in DD, and given the number of players we DON'T see, even if we all left to ONLY play Ranked and never touch normals again (which is unlikely in itself), 100-200 people could be easily replaced.

Quote:
Paqi:

But if you had Ranked Dominion, more people would play!

Likely not true. The vast majority of LoL players (for all map modes) do NOT play ranked. The LoL community is 27 million players or so, and 1% or less of those players play ranked. The fact that this sentiment is so common here makes it easy to believe everyone feels this way, but on top of Dominion being a niche community, the sub-group that frequents the forums is even smaller, and likely make up the tiny fraction of players that actually care about ranked.


Again, the vast majority of LoL players do not play Ranked but everybody who plays the Normals of each game mode that has a ranked option has something to aspire to; to be good enough to actually play Ranked or to play like those that DO play Ranked. While the subgroup that frequents the forums is in fact small, most of the time that vocal minority shares similar ideas with those who cannot or choose not to express themselves in another medium such as a forum (I know of people who specifically don't post on forums because they believe that companies will not listen to them, so why bother, then you have those who just play the game entirely to burn time or do something with their friends a la Mario Party...it's more faceted than what its made out to be). Think of World of Warcraft and how they've handled PvP over the years, and they have an even a smaller community of players. Think of how they implemented rankings for Rated Battlegrounds and continue to tweak them, even though the vast majority of PvPers moved to Arena from Normal Battlegrounds...and this was 6-7 years after the fact that the majority of PvP was going on in Normal BGs, and only then after people complained about having to gain rankings in Arena only (but this has even more reasons to it).

Simply put, I'm a bit hesitant to hinge on these reasons alone. Or better yet, I'd prefer they state the true reason rather than cloud it up with fancy wording:It's just not worth the money, time, or manpower to give this mode Ranked without taking from Summoner's Rift after lack of support has caused the game mode to fall off.