Falling Further Into Bronze

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AndurilWielder

Member

03-06-2014

So I never lose my lane, but I keep losing the matches because my team cant seem to win/counter theirs. I'm not a bad player, I farm well, and generally keep from dying (unless someone feeds hard, and I cant stay safe because they just died).

Any real strategies? At this rate I'll be stuck in bronze until s5, and I'd really love to get the out of it. At this point I'd be content with silver.

It also doesn't help that several of my matches I lost (but were prevented?) and still counted during placement. I wonder if (doubt it highly) riot will let me redo my placement, because of that discrepancy (lost matches, 3 were prevented, still registered as losses).

I just feel like my placement was unfair, and now I'm being punished for it by falling further into bronze and have no clue what I can do about it since my team mates never know how to work together or avoid feeding their lanes.


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WorstJunglerOk

Member

03-06-2014

Help your team, save a life , get kills by taking take Teleport. If you have good map awareness you should find opportunities to use it and turn enemy jungle ganks against them. Champions I like TP with are ones with useful ultimates like Malzahar (Great for turret divers) or Gragas. Because of their clearing ability you will be able to push wait in the side and look for a TP chance.

Test TP out to see which champs you like it on. Works with top laners too

Play champions you are not only comfortable with but can also do multiple things. Remember, pure damage isn't always the best way to go, utility plays a big role. Zhonya's, if you remember to use it can be amazing.


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Hippo77

Senior Member

03-06-2014

You can be the shotcaller, ping, call the shots, make the plays. Look for when you can do dragon for free., as it happens a lot in silver/bronze. Be the captain.

Also might want to work on your KDA. KDA's like 8.2 / 8.2 and 5.7 / 6.1 and 4.3 / 7.3 aren't going to help your case.
Also doesn't help that you only have 2 rune pages with 1 for Kayle with magic pen/attack speed/AD and 1 for AP...

Cut down on those deaths. Should aim for 4-6 deaths generally. Fights happen a TON in silver/bronze but still, aim for 4-5 deaths with 6-7 close to doing pretty bad/really long game.


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TeknoWizard

Senior Member

03-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder View Post
So I never lose my lane, but I keep losing the matches because my team cant seem to win/counter theirs. I'm not a bad player, I farm well, and generally keep from dying (unless someone feeds hard, and I cant stay safe because they just died).
This is why you're in Bronze. There is no way that you win your lane every time. If you did, you would not be in bronze. Also, you don't farm well, you're highest average farm is 159. I get above that on junglers almost every game, and I'm not even up in gold yet. Your average deaths on carry champions are higher than your average kills, or at least equal. Universally. Until you realize that your self-proclaimed awesomeness is actually false, you're never going to climb because you're never going to improve because you're already perfect in your eyes. I know it sounds harsh, but this is the reality of the situation.

Also, for more actionable advice beyond "Think you're a PoS and then diagnose your problems from that angle", is that you need to get yourself a main. You've got a small champion pool, and this is good. Getting very good at one champion is a great way to climb. But at this point, you don't have that comfort pick. You're below 50% W/L on every single champion. Either learn your current picks better such that you have better success with them, or start fishing around for a new one. Like, I still have Udyr as my biggest comfort pick. Not because he's absolutely amazing, or some pro recommended I pick him up, but just because I thought he looked cool, and his abilities sounded fun so I just have a ton of time logged on him since all the way back in S1. Pick something up just because it looks cool. Screw viability, Spamhappy proved that the whole idea of that was stupid by climbing to the highest of diamond with Poppy and even being in the LCS for a bit.


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AndurilWielder

Member

03-07-2014

Ah thanks guys. Though, I meant when I win a lane, I usually manage to get about 2 -3 kills and 1 or 2 deaths maybe during laning phase, and I win because their turret is down before mine is.

Most of my deaths happen post 20:00 min into the game, where there are big teamfights, and I usually (as Kayle) cc the enemies down, but don't manage many kills. As you might've seen, I get close to 20 assists per match, sometimes I get more assists than the SUPPORT, because I'm always there during teamfights, usually manage to save the adc with intervention, and I will use zhonyas, but I'm still focused and I still die.

I've been winning a lot more games lately, because I've been getting some teams who know what they're doing, but it doesn't help because I look at the map, and I'll get my opponent's turret in top or mid down, and bot lane will be pushed all the way back to inner turret.

I'm well aware my k/d/a ratio is skewed a bit, but most of that is due to fights past laning phase, as I've said. I usually get that many cs in beginning because I get a few kills at start, and I generally stop farming once I get past about 25:00 min into the game.

I've gone to normals to practice, and I usually average 250-300 cs on normals just because its so EASY. I'm not in this super mind state where I think I'm perfect and amazing. I know I can always improve, and so I practice techniques like farming and harrassing simultaneously all the time (usually against a friend of mine who's gold league). That being said, I'm still gonna stand by the truth. I always manage to get the turrets down in my lane. Always. This is a team game though, and I can do really well in lane, but if my allies end up losing their lanes, it'll be tougher, and that's what I need advice for.

edit: Though its not about kills as much as it is objectives. In a game I won, we had half as many kills as the other guys, but still won because they let lee sin backdoor while they tried to kill us under our inhib turret. 40-21 kills, won through objectives. A lot of players in bronze seem to just wander around and keep trying to get kills and never go after turrets (because they're afraid or something? Ward!).


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Hippo77

Senior Member

03-07-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder View Post
Most of my deaths happen post 20:00 min into the game, where there are big teamfights, and I usually (as Kayle) cc the enemies down, but don't manage many kills. As you might've seen, I get close to 20 assists per match, sometimes I get more assists than the SUPPORT, because I'm always there during teamfights, usually manage to save the adc with intervention, and I will use zhonyas, but I'm still focused and I still die.
Well you should have more assists, if you support or play mid. Mid is a lane that's easy to roam, it's not hard to have 7-9 assists/game on a mid champion.

Saving ADC is fine and all but your way of describing, using Zhonyas and then still die anyway, makes it sound like you just roamed in on a bad time or your team engaged in a bad situation, something learning will help.

CC is fine and helpful and all, but I don't care if you focus on CC/damage, I just want to win the teamfight. I'm going to build/play how it helps us win the fight.

I wouldn't build Rylai's on Kayle, she has a slow on Q. The slow doesn't help that much with her E.

Quote:
That being said, I'm still gonna stand by the truth. I always manage to get the turrets down in my lane. Always. This is a team game though, and I can do really well in lane, but if my allies end up losing their lanes, it'll be tougher, and that's what I need advice for.
Getting turrets down and all is fine, not that big of a deal since even if you get turret down first, I can still farm up top and when I know your jungler is somewhere else like bot lane, I can still push, pick up a kill or not, or perhaps push, you come top, and I roam mid. You getting turret down early doesn't mean you win, just means you gave your teammates some global gold.

If you are actually winning your lane, and your allies losing their lanes, it should at least cancel it out, no? Still, focus on cutting down on those deaths.

Like in basketball for example, it doesn't matter if you went 5-0 in lane or winning by halftime, if you end up going 0-5 past laning phase or lose the 2nd half, clearly you did something wrong and not using your early game advantages well.


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AndurilWielder

Member

03-07-2014

Quote:
I wouldn't build Rylai's on Kayle, she has a slow on Q. The slow doesn't help that much with her E.
Interesting thing about that? It stacks with her q, and it also works with her e, and rylai's with lich's bane makes her op :P

I'll just have to focus on cutting down on those deaths, and gank bot/top more when the opportunity arises.


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MurOllavan

Senior Member

03-07-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder View Post
So I never lose my lane, but I keep losing the matches because my team cant seem to win/counter theirs. I'm not a bad player, I farm well, and generally keep from dying (unless someone feeds hard, and I cant stay safe because they just died).
You lose lane sometimes. You aren't losing the matches because of your team. You're a bad player. You don't farm well. You don't generally keep from dying, at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder View Post
I just feel like my placement was unfair, and now I'm being punished for it by falling further into bronze and have no clue what I can do about it since my team mates never know how to work together or avoid feeding their lanes.
It was unfair, you should have been placed in B5, as illustrated by your results and your elo hell QQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder
Ah thanks guys. Though, I meant when I win a lane, I usually manage to get about 2 -3 kills and 1 or 2 deaths maybe during laning phase, and I win because their turret is down before mine is.
Ah thanks Anduril. Though, what we meant when you don't win lane every time, is that it doesn't happen every time. Or even close to every time because you're stats would look hella different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder
Most of my deaths happen post 20:00 min into the game, where there are big teamfights, and I usually (as Kayle) cc the enemies down, but don't manage many kills. As you might've seen, I get close to 20 assists per match,
Most of your deaths happen past the 20:00 min mark, where there are big death timers so they cost the most. So you're saying you maximize the cost to your team? 20 assists per match? Lolking says 9.3 is closer to reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder
I've been winning a lot more games lately, because I've been getting some teams who know what they're doing,
This is called being hard carried. It happens when your MMR drops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder
I'm well aware my k/d/a ratio is skewed a bit, but most of that is due to fights past laning phase, as I've said. I usually get that many cs in beginning because I get a few kills at start, and I generally stop farming once I get past about 25:00 min into the game.
Skewed a bit. That's one way to put it. Funny thing about CS, when I get early kills I get even more. Yanno, because I'm free farming in my lane with no opposition. Generally stop farming at 25 min means you generally stop caring at 25 min.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder
I'm not in this super mind state where I think I'm perfect and amazing. I know I can always improve,
No, you're in the mind state where you think you're doing things right when you're not. And of course you can improve! It's only up from here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder
That being said, I'm still gonna stand by the truth. I always manage to get the turrets down in my lane. Always. This is a team game though, and I can do really well in lane, but if my allies end up losing their lanes, it'll be tougher, and that's what I need advice for
You haven't confronted the truth, which is the point of this. Please understand, it is not your allies. The problem. Is you.


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AndurilWielder

Member

03-10-2014

Okay my reply just vanished when I clicked submit. I have to try and type it all over again. ._. (Also: shiny new forum avatars?)

Anyway, I was basically stating that cs in bronze is like usually no more than 150. In most if not all of the matches I play, only two people get somewhere between 180-220, and the reason is because about 10 min in people start ganking (not the jungler), and team fights happen much earlier. People don't sit around and farm/harrass in their lane until the first turrets are down, they roam and team fight, which makes it difficult for me to farm when my lane is being pushed by 3 people and the rest of my team cant manage to push their lanes even when an enemy player is absent in their lane.

I know my cs generally sucks (I used to be much better. In normals I get 200+ every game, my highest being close to 500 in a weird 90 min match).

At least that's the case when I'm not experimenting. About four of my recent champ purchases have been spent experimenting with them in normal mode, so my farm was worse because I wasn't quite used to their damage output, and last hitting was more difficult.

I know I'm not the best player out there - that's not the point of this thread, and I'd also appreciate it if you wouldn't be so sarcastic in response to my thank you, because I genuinely thank you for your response.

However, I need help in figuring out what to do, when my allies are feeding or unable to push their lanes when the rest of the team is MIA. Not to say "get better at farming" because that's kind of implied, I think, right? Farming is what makes gold, not harassing. You can be under turret and winning your lane because you have more farm than the other guy who's obsessed with harassing.


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AthenasHarpy

Member

03-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder View Post
Anyway, I was basically stating that cs in bronze is like usually no more than 150. In most if not all of the matches I play, only two people get somewhere between 180-220, and the reason is because about 10 min in people start ganking (not the jungler), and team fights happen much earlier. People don't sit around and farm/harrass in their lane until the first turrets are down, they roam and team fight, which makes it difficult for me to farm when my lane is being pushed by 3 people and the rest of my team cant manage to push their lanes even when an enemy player is absent in their lane.
You shouldn't be comparing yourself to the "norms" of bronze, you should be exploiting them. Bronze players are weakest in mechanics like trading, consistent cs, and avoiding "bloodlust", so punish them for it. When I ADC I farm all game long, and try not to roam without helping ward my jungle.

Beyond the laning phase, enemies may try to clear waves enough for their minions to push without champ help. When that happens and the "money mob" is close to your base/tower, just ping and go farm it (with wards!!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder View Post
I know I'm not the best player out there - that's not the point of this thread
I think your missing the point of all this thread's responses if that's what you think. The reason responses are starting to get sarcastic/witty is because you're not grasping the fact part of your falling is because YOU have room to improve, team failures or not. Every one of our deaths can be attributed to something we did wrong, so each game you have one death means there is at least one thing YOU need to work on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndurilWielder View Post
However, I need help in figuring out what to do, when my allies are feeding or unable to push their lanes when the rest of the team is MIA. Not to say "get better at farming" because that's kind of implied, I think, right? Farming is what makes gold, not harassing. You can be under turret and winning your lane because you have more farm than the other guy who's obsessed with harassing.
To paraphrase Sky:
If you're winning your lane and you see another lane struggling, go help them - share your power with your team. Take a break from farming and give them a quick assist.

Hopefully jungler is helping that lane before it gets too bad, but (this is my opinion) the lane that fed is the lane that'll need the farm. Depending on what role they are, they will need the help snowballing, or at least not becoming too weak in late game. If you're doing well in your own lane (K/D and maybe a tower down), go help them (again, depending on your role) before it gets too serious.

I don't know what you mean by "when my allies are feeding or unable to push their lanes when the rest of the team is MIA", but someone needs to take the initiative in chat. Don't bash 'em, just try and keep it together but strategize in chat:
"Jungler help push (losing lane) if you can"
"(losing lane champ) go farm (winning lane) for a bit"
"(losing lane) trade with (winning lane) for a bit, (winning champ) help me harass/gank (losing lane)"


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