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Wriggles and its new upgrade, "Feral Flames"

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Rebonack

Senior Member

02-28-2014

But seriously, you guys.

Make an IAS/OnHit Magic Damage/OnHit Heal item for the other maps as well.

My TanKoggy will love you forever.


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Living Archive

Junior Member

02-28-2014

Whereas I am excited that you are trying make LoL better, I'm not too excited about this iteration of Wriggle's. If you are trying to create a useful item out of wriggles, it needs to satisfy the following:

(1) It needs to be suitable for non mana jungles that do physical damage.
(2) It needs to be affordable and provide combat stats.
(3) It needs to be competitive with other jungle options.
(4) It needs to be non-normally attractive to laners.

I think this iteration fails to meet those requirements.

(1) This iteration does non-scaling magic damage to champions. What physical damage champion wants that outside of WW? And even there, WW may want the mana sustain of the spirit line.
(2) As a jungle, you have to have damage as well as tankiness. Attack speed helps speed up the clear, but, as a jungle you can't just farm. You have a large job to do and that is only part of it. Does Riot really want farm jungles that do nothing but farm for 25 minutes and come out as monsters? Probably not as that would not promote a healthy dynamic. Either the other jungle has no impact on the game or he is unnecessary at that point. Furthermore, the only counter play to that tactic is counter jungling which is already hard enough to do in solo queue without organized plays.
(3) If the item is based off of attack speed and ad and has no mana. Which champions are being targeted with this? Junglers who like attack speed, have no or little mana, and would like to boost their clear speed. Currently, lizard elder is fine for carry jungles and none of which are attack speed based. The class you are really targeting with this are bruisers that don't have good options for jungle items now (most of which are single target). Shyvanna, Trundle, Warwick, Gangplank, Aatrox, Poppy, Rengar, and Lee Sin are probably the champions you want to use this item. However, all of these champions want some sort of utility from this slot either in the form of scaling lifesteal or tankiness.
(4) If all of the champions being targeted with this are physical damage, why are you giving them mixed lifesteal type damage? That doesn't make sense and it makes it either less effective for the person building the item or it makes it impossible to itemize against (see Darius).

The current problem with Wriggle's is this: the item provides stats that nobody wants. And the champs that want those stats simply can't build the item and be competitive at any stage of the a game. A tier 3 version of that item won't make it any better. Honestly, the old Wriggle's with armor and AD was a great item because it provided what that subset of champions wanted. Now, there were problems with that, but, the item should provide meaningful sustain in the jungle and meaningful utility outside of the jungle which is where the current iteration of Wriggle's fails.

As it is, you are trying to view Wriggle's as a way to make Master Yi, Tryndamere, Yasuo, and Fiora into viable junglers, right? But, they already have lanes they do well in! Mid and top. Why not use your resources to address why purely single target jungles are not very good right now and make an item to help address that? Aatrox, Gangplank, Rengar, Poppy, Trundle, etc. are all good candidates for an item like this because none of them particularly benefit from the spirit items.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I hope they are helpful and I hope that, whereas I am not a professional game designer, maybe you can get some nuggets that will be helpful and positive.

Much <3!


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Teraxe

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Living Archive:
Whereas I am excited that you are trying make LoL better, I'm not too excited about this iteration of Wriggle's. If you are trying to create a useful item out of wriggles, it needs to satisfy the following:

(1) It needs to be suitable for non mana jungles that do physical damage.
(2) It needs to be affordable and provide combat stats.
(3) It needs to be competitive with other jungle options.
(4) It needs to be non-normally attractive to laners.

I think this iteration fails to meet those requirements.

(1) This iteration does non-scaling magic damage to champions. What physical damage champion wants that outside of WW? And even there, WW may want the mana sustain of the spirit line.
(2) As a jungle, you have to have damage as well as tankiness. Attack speed helps speed up the clear, but, as a jungle you can't just farm. You have a large job to do and that is only part of it. Does Riot really want farm jungles that do nothing but farm for 25 minutes and come out as monsters? Probably not as that would not promote a healthy dynamic. Either the other jungle has no impact on the game or he is unnecessary at that point. Furthermore, the only counter play to that tactic is counter jungling which is already hard enough to do in solo queue without organized plays.
(3) If the item is based off of attack speed and ad and has no mana. Which champions are being targeted with this? Junglers who like attack speed, have no or little mana, and would like to boost their clear speed. Currently, lizard elder is fine for carry jungles and none of which are attack speed based. The class you are really targeting with this are bruisers that don't have good options for jungle items now (most of which are single target). Shyvanna, Trundle, Warwick, Gangplank, and Lee Sin are probably the champions you want to use this item. However, all of these champions want some sort of utility from this slot either in the form of scaling lifesteal or tankiness.
(4) If all of the champions being targeted with this are physical damage, why are you giving them mixed lifesteal type damage? That doesn't make sense and it makes it either less effective for the person building the item or it makes it impossible to itemize against (see Darius).

The current problem with Wriggle's is this: the item provides stats that nobody wants. And the champs that want those stats simply can't build the item and be competitive at any stage of the a game. A tier 3 version of that item won't make it any better. Honestly, the old Wriggle's with armor and AD was a great item because it provided what that subset of champions wanted. Now, there were problems with that, but, the item should provide meaningful sustain in the jungle and meaningful utility outside of the jungle which is where the current iteration of Wriggle's fails.

As it is, you are trying to view Wriggle's as a way to make Master Yi, Tryndamere, Yasuo, and Fiora into viable junglers, right? But, they already have lanes they do well in! Mid and top. Why not use your resources to address why purely single target jungles are not very good right now and make an item to help address that?



Would lee sin meet those criteria, it even gives him a free ward for ward hoping.


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Simba Pridelands

Senior Member

02-28-2014

bring back season 2 wriggles please!


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Arrevax

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Solcrushed:
Looks like a bug! Thanks for mentioning this I'll look into it right away

Can you look into Viktor while you're at it? Your thread about him is getting close to two years old, and he still hasn't seen any changes. Wasn't there something about the trinket system being the key thing you/Riot needed to create a new set of Hex Cores for him?


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Wriggle

Adjudicator

03-01-2014

That Flare ward-placement range.. damn.


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Moonternity

Senior Member

03-01-2014

The vision range seems to be longer, too, unless my eyes are deceiving me.

Top ward is a trinket ward, and bottom ward is the Flare ward.

edit: got another image, Flare ward in dragon entrance and trinket ward in Baron entrance


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shppy

Senior Member

03-01-2014

That...looks pretty overpowered, honestly. Like, really pretty overpowered, for that cost.

I mean, the thing will cost 1650 and some very minor elbow grease (considering the stacking start when you get machete), and gives 1900 in raw PvP stats, plus the ward and gold generation... which is fine, it's a mid-tier end-of-the-line item; with the lack of slot efficiency that comes with items of those types it should have good cost-efficiency (it'd be nice if the SotEL and SotAG were that efficient, or even worth their cost in PvP, instead of being worth about ~1700 each outside the jungle including their passives, while costing 2000).

But man, tacking on that passive, with it now functioning in PvP? That's gonna be over the top, guaranteed; that is worth a hell of a lot of gold to an auto-attacker, it wouldn't be a stretch to say this item is gonna be valued at over double what you pay for it (while also being a gold generator and technically infinite scaling). I mean, wriggle's right now is pretty trashy, but this change is going well beyond making it viable, this is making it (turn into something) godlike, and just begging to cause problems if released.


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Mrrggrr

Senior Member

03-01-2014

This is a very good item for Master Yi and I can't wait to try it out.


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Vovix

Recruiter

03-01-2014

With this item,every jungler is a Nasus.