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Wriggles and its new upgrade, "Feral Flames"

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LoLKiru

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
GodKilleR 999:
I like that the concept, just doesn't seem to be feasible to get and make it useful, 25 camps is a whole lot to begin with and it only starts counting at wriggles (make it madreds at least), also doesn't even give mana back which is kinda meh compared to the other spirit items.


Someone earlier posted that they had 16 out of the 25 stacks as soon as they upgraded the item (implying it starts stacking even before becoming wriggles) meaning either that theres miscommunication between meddler and the people who designed the item and it DOES stack before wriggles OR...... its not supposed to be stacking before then but is, pretty impossible to know which is true without a red post =P


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Timjin

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
LoLKiru:
Someone earlier posted that they had 16 out of the 25 stacks as soon as they upgraded the item (implying it starts stacking even before becoming wriggles) meaning either that theres miscommunication between meddler and the people who designed the item and it DOES stack before wriggles OR...... its not supposed to be stacking before then but is, pretty impossible to know which is true without a red post =P


I'm hoping that it is a case of miscommunication, since it seems like being able to start stacking before you build it would allow you to actually gain the item in a reasonable amount of time.

When you think about it, if you need to farm with it to increase its strength anyway, they should at least allow you to build up stacks, like with Tear.

Side note: How much damage/lifesteal are we seeing from this roughly?


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MasterofSFL

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
PsychoB0b:
Well isn't that a bit of a problem though? You're putting a significant amount of gold into an item that gives pretty much zero combat stats, but now holds the promise of being good much later in the game, but now offers even less reward gold for upgrading it.

Meanwhile, the spirit stone items all offer reward gold for clearing, offer actual usable stats, and have a neat useful little passive attached to them. Even then, the reliance on assists and kills to gain stats on the item seems like it'd be difficult to balance out at best, especially on a champ who won't be ganking to justify buying the item.


Well, as Meddler stated, it's not for Ganking Champions, it's for champions who are farming Jungle and Counter-Jungling. AS is a much more important stat for this than any other stat and seeing as you aren't ganking heavily as other junglers, it having a sub-par Combat stat is fine.

This item is geared towards Carry Junglers (Yi/Fiora) who benefit little from Spirit stone early and have weak ganks, but excel at farming.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
DogInRealLife:
I just wonder if it would be significant enough to choose Wriggles over SotL without making SotL completely obsolete.


Flames only seems to restore health and it passive is only on AA. While SotL restores health and mana and any type of physical damage proc it.


So Flame seems more for manaless Auto attack users while SotL is more mana champs with lots of physical abilities.


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Rebonack

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Does the OnHit magic damage have a cap or does it just keep growing?


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KevinDelMarr

Senior Member

02-28-2014

If Feral Flame did true damage it would be an amazing item. Doing 33+ true damage every hit while healing for 12+ hp would be really good, you could farm like crazy and come out doing 40 true damage per-hit and healing for over 30. I could see by late game Yi gaining an additional 50 true damage to his auto attacks and healing for 50 every hit.

It's still only made for a few Champions (namely manaless or carries) but it could become a good niche item eventually. It's still competing with Elder Lizard, which gives more AD, does true damage on auto attacks and physical spells, and gives mana sustain.

Now if we could just make farming, carry junglers competitively viable


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Meddler:
Counter starts once you upgrade to Wriggles. It's not intended to be a great choice if you're playing a gank heavy jungler, very much targeted at champs with more desire to jungle clear fast/invade to steal camps.


I was asking about this in my jungler thread.

Good junglers have to be able to gank. So you've pretty much designed a "trap" item for bad junglers?

Also, if you are able to regularly invade after level 1-2 and you get an item that doesn't allow you to apply that pressure to the lanes, aren't you essentially setting yourself back as a jungler when you are in a position to help win the bloody game for your bloody team?

I'm sorry meddler, but if this is your reasoning for the item, you are setting people up to fail. If I presently see a jungler getting wriggles, I know he's bad. Now I've got a red telling me this item is going to be specifically for bad players as a noob trap.

How am I supposed to react to this?

Will someone bloody tell me how in the world I'm supposed to react to this?


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KevinDelMarr

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Linna Excel:
I was asking about this in my jungler thread.

Good junglers have to be able to gank. So you've pretty much designed a "trap" item for bad junglers?

Also, if you are able to regularly invade after level 1-2 and you get an item that doesn't allow you to apply that pressure to the lanes, aren't you essentially setting yourself back as a jungler when you are in a position to help win the bloody game for your bloody team?

I'm sorry meddler, but if this is your reasoning for the item, you are setting people up to fail. If I presently see a jungler getting wriggles, I know he's bad. Now I've got a red telling me this item is going to be specifically for bad players as a noob trap.

How am I supposed to react to this?

Will someone bloody tell me how in the world I'm supposed to react to this?

Then they increase the reward for ganking. Like instead of 1 bonus magic damage and 1 increased on-hot healing for kills and assits it grants 5 for kills and 3 for assists.

The new item is a blueprint for further changes.


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Solcrushed

Live Balance Designer

02-28-2014

Quote:
Meddler:
Counter starts once you upgrade to Wriggles. It's not intended to be a great choice if you're playing a gank heavy jungler, very much targeted at champs with more desire to jungle clear fast/invade to steal camps.


Clarifying here.

The counter for upgrading Wriggles -> Flare counts the number of large monsters you killed with Maim (Machete, Razors, Lantern.) So more or less counts every monster you killed from start of game unless you started dblade or something.

The counter for determining how much extra damage/heal you gain starts after the upgrade.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

02-28-2014

Quote:
Linna Excel:
I was asking about this in my jungler thread.

Good junglers have to be able to gank. So you've pretty much designed a "trap" item for bad junglers?

Also, if you are able to regularly invade after level 1-2 and you get an item that doesn't allow you to apply that pressure to the lanes, aren't you essentially setting yourself back as a jungler when you are in a position to help win the bloody game for your bloody team?

I'm sorry meddler, but if this is your reasoning for the item, you are setting people up to fail. If I presently see a jungler getting wriggles, I know he's bad. Now I've got a red telling me this item is going to be specifically for bad players as a noob trap.

How am I supposed to react to this?

Will someone bloody tell me how in the world I'm supposed to react to this?




By saying "bloody" some more.


This is the first time I have seen someone write like this and I want to see more.