Comparing Caitlyn's Ult to Those of Other Long Range Champions

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kirby145x

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Ignoring her other abilities which help her in certain ways, let's just get straight to the ult. It's bad.

And I am not talking about the bugs/passives which allow you to dodge it.

So when using the ult you have a few trade offs for its power:
1. A laser and red circle appear around the target champion
2. The bullet may be blocked by a champion during its travel towards the target.
3. It has both a channel time and a travel time for enemies to react.

So what you end up with is an ult that could hit your target, but will most often be blocked by a tank or any other ally helping the target. Reasonably, the ult should do a lot of damage to offset this, but it doesn't. People often do not even need to block the ult for their teammates because it will not even kill them.

Math Comparisons of Long Range Ultimates +Good attributes, - Bad
This is ignoring armor or magic resistance which will decrease the damage dealt, or in some cases negate it comepletely.
(credit to leagueoflegends.wikia.com and RIOT games)
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Caitlyn Ult: Ace in the Hole

Physical Damage: 250 / 400 / 550 (+2 per Bonus Attack Damage)
Cooldown: 90 / 75 / 60 seconds
Range: 1400 / 1800 / 2200

Edited to use Bloodthirsters
Maximum physical damage [ 550 + (6 BT x 100 AD Ea) x 2 ]: 1750
-Even at 2*Bonus AD scaling, this impractical max AD combination does not produce a high number
-Low range for low damage
+Locked on targets will be traced no matter their location by the bullet
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Lux Ult: Finales Funkeln


Magic Damage: 300 / 400 / 500 (+0.85 per Ability Power)
Cooldown: 80 / 60 / 40 seconds Faster
Range: 3,000 Better

Maximum magical damage [ 500 + [.85*BD=155 + ((5 AAS x 45 AP Ea=225)+(AAS Passive=(.03)(5)(1000 + (400*5)

+ base mana=300))x(BD Passive=1.3)] ]: 1,748
-Channel time
-Laser is visible while channeling
+Better damage scaling
+Hits multiple targets in its skillshot aoe
+Can not be blocked by an ally
+Shoots instantly after channeling.
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Karthus Ult: Requiem

Cooldown: 180 / 150 / 120 seconds Slower
Magic Damage: 250 / 400 / 550 (+0.7 per Ability Power)
Range: Global

Maximum magical damage: 550 + (.7 * (155 + 225 + ((.03 * 5 * (1000 + (400 * 5))) + 331)) * 1.3) = 1,606
-Ult indicator appears while Karthus is channeling
+Better damage scaling
+Global range, can be cast from places where the channel is not interrupted
+Hits all enemy champions
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Ashe Ult:
Cooldown: 75 seconds About the same
Range: Global

Maximum magical damage(AP): 600 + (1 * (155 + 225 + ((.03 * 5 * (1000 + (400 * 5))) + 200)) * 1.3) = 1,939
Maximum magical damage(AD): 600
-Scaling with AP is impractical
-Can be blocked by ally
+Global range skillshot that is less predictable
+Stuns first champion it hits and slows others in the AOE for up to 3.5 s
+Utility in addition to damage makes the ult better even without scaling.
----
Kog'Maw Ult: Living Artillery

Cooldown: 2 / 1.5 / 1
Range: 1,400 / 1,700 / 2,000

Maximum magical damage: 160 + (.3 * (155 + 225 + ((.03 * 5 * (1000 + (400 * 5))) + 335)) * 1.3) = 614.35
-Location of artillery can be avoided due to long after-cast effect time.
+AOE damage and visiblity effect
+Easy to spam ability at long ranges due to low cooldown
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Ezreal Ult: Trueshot Barrage

Magic Damage: 350 / 500 / 650 (+0.9 per Ability Power)
Cooldown: 100 seconds
Range: Global

Maximum magical damage: 650 + (.9 * (155 + 225 + ((.03 * 5 * (1000 + (400 * 5))) + 280)) * 1.3) = 1,948
8% damage less per enemy unit passes through, 30% less minimum=1,364
-Decreased damage if other enemies are hit
+Global skillshot with wide AOE
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Teemo Ult: Noxious Trap
While technically not a long-ranged ult, Teemo's traps are known to finish off enemies and can be placed anywhere.

Magic Damage: 250 / 475 / 700 (+0.8 per Ability Power)
Charge Receive Time: 30 / 26 / 22 seconds
Range: 230 (But placed globally)

Maximum magical damage:
700 + (.8 * (155 + 225 + ((.03 * 5 * (1000 + (400 * 5))) + 240)) * 1.3) = 1,812.8
-Mushrooms can be triggered by anyone
-Stealthed mushrooms can be seen with wards or oracle's elixir
+Placed globally
+Large AOE damage and stun effect
+AOE can prevent allies from taking all the damage
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If I made any mistakes, please tell me how to correct them.

I hope that this will help Caitlin players see how other characters provide more for your team. I hope RIOT will see the comparisons and adjust Caitlin so that the great risk taken by using her ultimate provides a great reward. I do realize that this was ONLY based on ultimates, but I think ultimates play a big role in League of Legends.

Just looking over Caitlyn's ult and other abilities quickly, you can see that she has a lot of room to do damage, but her scaling does not allow her to. She has skills that are made for utility, but they do not work very well.

I will hold off playing Caitlyn until she is changed and I suggest other players do the same.


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kirby145x

Senior Member

01-05-2011

TL: DR VERSION: Other champions have better ultimates with utility, strength, and that are unavoidable. To see the max damage outputs, look at the Bold numbers


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SlyGoat

Member

01-05-2011

without even playing her i think her ult needs the same treatment as sniper's ultimate from DotA; keep the cooldown long at low level so it doesn't become overwhelming unavoidable harass, and drop it down really low at higher levels to keep it a relevant poke, 'cause otherwise the ability really dies off when you could spend your time autoattacking instead


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Heliostorm

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Should have done the comparison with Bloodthirsters, not IEs.

It'd still be bad of course, but just comparing it with stacking IEs...


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Deathproof77

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Senior Member

01-05-2011

Very nice. I hope this gets looked at and Caitlyn gets some sort of buff to her ultimate, I have no problem with her other spells. My suggestion of making it deal a lower amount of true damage would be great.


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kirby145x

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TsarBomb0 View Post
Should have done the comparison with Bloodthirsters, not IEs.

It'd still be bad of course, but just comparing it with stacking IEs...
While that would technically be the maximum damage output, you would have to get an unreasonable amount of kills first, which is not even possible as Caitlyn.

I am avoiding using snowball/stacked items for this as those are difficult to keep viable.


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Fifthdawn

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Senior Member

01-05-2011

Now if it can crit..it would be a totally different story. I really hope they change it so that it can crit.


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Heliostorm

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirby145x View Post
While that would technically be the maximum damage output, you would have to get an unreasonable amount of kills first, which is not even possible as Caitlyn.

I am avoiding using snowball/stacked items for this as those are difficult to keep viable.
Bloodthirsters get stacks off minions, not kills. And they're cheaper than 6 IEs...


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Rogmarz

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Master Recruiter

01-05-2011

Like mentioned above, Bloodthirsters add more total AD than IE.

Also, Ace in the Hole applies on-hit effects like Tri-force/Sheen. So that may improve your maximum damage if you swap one for a Bloodthirster.


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kirby145x

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0TsarBomb0 View Post
Bloodthirsters get stacks off minions, not kills. And they're cheaper than 6 IEs...
OK OK I will change the equation...

Thank you for the information though, I honestly messed that up.


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