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Shen Guide: Optimus Shen the Tank-Carry

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Grimshaw

Senior Member

01-07-2011

Quote:
Samail:
Aegis is bad on Shen the way I play it. Warmog stacking: I might have to remove this--it's been nitpicked like a witch by the Holy Inquisition. You see chances are you won't even get there. Everything after the core is a player's preference. I am even changing the core with Bladesbane's Hearts of Gold.
The taunt thing: been there, done it, don't like it; it doesn't work that well. Please for the sake of argument try a few games, and give it an open heart.

I don't really think it's a matter of preference. I've played shen compulsively since release and I can say that if you max his extremely strong aoe disable last, you straight up do not
understand how to play the character and should not be writing guides on him.


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Nickicksu

Senior Member

01-07-2011

yeah dude. used this, and went 30-7-25 whilst our team was 3v5ing them..
they sucked, but still, funny stuff


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Vodka Gimlet

Member

01-07-2011

Well, LionInaComa, that's like your opinion, man.

Maybe I've missed something, but what's the point of critiquing a guys argument by stating that you have your own experience that is somehow more valid. That's not a debate. You don't gain any ground by responding to a claim with your own anecdotal "this is how I play Shen and thus is better."

It's especially helpful when someone swoops in here and bashes the guy's guide while simultaneously saying he didn't read it.

For those who did read it, apparently didn't read it very well. This guy isn't saying that Shen shouldn't taunt, or build taunt, but rather the build order favors Feint and Vorpal Sword early and mid game rather than taunt for all of the reasons he listed.

The way I see it, the goal of a tank is to redirect damage away from the traditional damage dealers on your team - who are often very vulnerable. You can do this through mechanics of the game (a high cool down taunt) or through a more aggressive playstyle that draws your opponents attention in addition to your mechanical taunt.

Either way, you've succeeded as a tank. Then you need to survive the redirected damage via health build, magic resistance, armor, or what have you. Regardless, this is tailored to your opponents build. Everyone may have their own potion, but in the end you buy the stat to compensate for the team.

The strength of this guide, I believe, is the philosophy. The aggressive tank early and mid game can catch a few extra kills with the higher level Vorpal sword or maybe add some harassment to make you a bigger target (which is ideal) for the other team.

I think the build favoring early Feint to eat turret blasts - permitting deeper turret diving to snag that extra kill is a better decision than the early taunting. Especially when you time your turret dive to get that vorpal sword and then take no turret damage from feint.

Anyway - and again I am new here - but I don't get the point of providing non-constructive or out and out inflammatory feedback rather than, you know, not saying anything at all.


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lmaonade200

Senior Member

01-07-2011

Quote:
Vodka Gimlet:
Well, LionInaComa, that's like your opinion, man.

Maybe I've missed something, but what's the point of critiquing a guys argument by stating that you have your own experience that is somehow more valid. That's not a debate. You don't gain any ground by responding to a claim with your own anecdotal "this is how I play Shen and thus is better."

It's especially helpful when someone swoops in here and bashes the guy's guide while simultaneously saying he didn't read it.

For those who did read it, apparently didn't read it very well. This guy isn't saying that Shen shouldn't taunt, or build taunt, but rather the build order favors Feint and Vorpal Sword early and mid game rather than taunt for all of the reasons he listed.

The way I see it, the goal of a tank is to redirect damage away from the traditional damage dealers on your team - who are often very vulnerable. You can do this through mechanics of the game (a high cool down taunt) or through a more aggressive playstyle that draws your opponents attention in addition to your mechanical taunt.

Either way, you've succeeded as a tank. Then you need to survive the redirected damage via health build, magic resistance, armor, or what have you. Regardless, this is tailored to your opponents build. Everyone may have their own potion, but in the end you buy the stat to compensate for the team.

The strength of this guide, I believe, is the philosophy. The aggressive tank early and mid game can catch a few extra kills with the higher level Vorpal sword or maybe add some harassment to make you a bigger target (which is ideal) for the other team.

I think the build favoring early Feint to eat turret blasts - permitting deeper turret diving to snag that extra kill is a better decision than the early taunting. Especially when you time your turret dive to get that vorpal sword and then take no turret damage from feint.

Anyway - and again I am new here - but I don't get the point of providing non-constructive or out and out inflammatory feedback rather than, you know, not saying anything at all.


"this is how I play Shen and thus is better"
that is the basis of this whole guide, give it another read through please.

And although i do not hold prejudices against this build, i will not try it either, because i prefer not to take the role of carry when playing shen, because imo a fed tryn/ashe/xin/olaf is much scarier than a fed shen. I prefer to play him as a true tank and focus on netting assists instead of kills. It's fine to be aggressive, but my philosophy is that i should be making my teammates better as a tank instead of making myself better.

And no, assists for your carries do not net them enough gold, i once got 13 gold from an assist on akali... 13 GOLD!?!?!


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Vodka Gimlet

Member

01-08-2011

I appreciate your honesty that at least you aren't going to give the guide a shot due to his conflicting philosophy, rather than some deep seated prejudice that you have somehow cracked the Shen-Code.

Though, the basis of his guide is an aggressive philosophy - the tone is meant as humorous. It's written tongue-in-cheek to mock other guides that claim to be the king of a particular champion. After all, he compares Shen to the leader of the Autobots - he's not being serious.

It was a joke.


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Grimshaw

Senior Member

01-08-2011

Quote:
Vodka Gimlet:

The way I see it, the goal of a tank is to redirect damage away from the traditional damage dealers on your team - who are often very vulnerable. You can do this through mechanics of the game (a high cool down taunt) or through a more aggressive playstyle that draws your opponents attention in addition to your mechanical taunt.



Thing is, nobody good is going to focus shen because of his "aggressive playstyle". Even with lots of HP, his damage scaling and raw DPS is weak compared to just about any real
carry with real dps skillsets and real dps items.

Shen is first and foremost a disabler. Maxing his disable last make work against unorganized teams who blow all their **** on the first guy to walk in, but any team with a brain is going to laugh at your half-second taunt, walk past you, annihilate your carry and kill you last. Duration on the taunt (along with your ult) is KEY to giving your dps time to dps. This isn't even touching on how many kills that will get away due to the weakness of your disable in ganks

Think about it: when you play a squishy ranged carry, are you scared of shen because of his insane damage and ridiculous damage reduction (think old garen)? No, you're scared of shen because he will hold you in place for almost 2 seconds while his entire team beats on you.

Shen doesn't need more than 1 point in feint to turret dive, b
tw.


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Grimshaw

Senior Member

01-08-2011

Quote:
Vodka Gimlet:
I appreciate your honesty that at least you aren't going to give the guide a shot due to his conflicting philosophy, rather than some deep seated prejudice that you have somehow cracked the Shen-Code.

Though, the basis of his guide is an aggressive philosophy - the tone is meant as humorous. It's written tongue-in-cheek to mock other guides that claim to be the king of a particular champion. After all, he compares Shen to the leader of the Autobots - he's not being serious.

It was a joke.

sick backpedaling bro

guide is bad and you should feel bad for defending it. end of.


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Vodka Gimlet

Member

01-08-2011

Wow.

Well.

That's all one has to say.


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ProLude

Junior Member

01-09-2011

Yeah I highly disagree with the guide. Aegis is great on shen no matter what build you pick. Warmogs is ok but it is better spent on frozen mallet (health and dmg plus slow) which you dont have to farm up. Regen wont do much at all in a fight when your focused anyway, unless you build a spirit visage (a good item especially if you have a healer). Pick ninja tabi for the dodge with the defensive masteries boost so that you are dodging all types of attacks not just mitigating dmg (you will not take any dmg at all from some attacks if you are dodging some attacks, isnt that a huge plus?) If you have health runes like you should, your life will increase as you get to 18 and your hp will be high already for your passive, add a atmas and you get more armor and about 75 extra dmg with it as well (around 3000 hp, which you should have with only aegis, and frozen mallet, no need to spend the cash on warmogs). FoN works great against a magic heavy team, plus gives you move speed. Have some extra cash and are doing good buy the new magic item the AP hat (deathcap), gives you 206 AP on shen and his abilities just make people say wtf did you just do to us in that team fight! Try it its fun!
I level feint and dash first, one in vorpal and one in united until team fights start to happen often then the extra dmg for the shield is needed. If you use dash early you WILL get multi kills with your teamate in lane, he is most likely a carry that should be getting those kills though so let him kill.
I use exhaust and ignite, use them early for kills, or for defense at a turret to get kills. Dash, exhaust, atk atk atk, ignite plus the turret shots and their dead easy as with feint they aint hitting you anyway.
In a teamfight, you ignite any enemy that has regen and exhaust the carry to mitigate his dmg so your team can take over doing the real dmg. As shen you focus the squishiest enemy so that you scare them as you hit them with ki strike and their life drops to 1/3 in a shot.

Play smart and build smart with shen and he will turn the game every time. You should be averaging 25 assists per game and 6-10 kills depending on length of game. Dont waste item slots building hp, its a waste, a balanced shen is a great champ, he even states that in game with his taunts! Its also in his story.


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Burbinator

Senior Member

01-10-2011

Quote:
Vodka Gimlet:
Working as this "full Tank" build I had limited success. I would level my taunt early and use it often and hope I survived and I rarely did and when I died usually the entire team went down. Obviously, there should have been a change.


This is because you cannot tank well when your team sucks. Building him so he benefits your team more will obviously fail if your team is bad, at low levels. Also, you should NOT be initiating with taunt. Timing with taunt is crucial, if you are trying just to use it as often as possible, well, you're doing it wrong.

Quote:
The more I play LOL it seems to me that there is no 'perfect' item set up. No one is a 'perfect' tank or a 'perfect' farmer


Item builds especially for tanks are usually situational based on the other team's composition. However, there ARE the most viable builds for any particular champion.

Ex: You never build merc treads on jax, becaus eyou need the dodge proc. If there was ever a situation where the magic resist + cc reduction was actually more valuable than dodge, then you should have picked xin zhao instead. If you are trying to build a champ into a different role, then consider if you should've just picked another champion who fills that role so much better. The reason AD kog is looked down upon isn't that he's necessarily a terrible carry, but if you wanted an AD carry, you should've picked a different champ.

May i suggest that if you want a champ with sustained dps and damage mitigation... you should pick mordekaiser instead? At your level, vodka, people are going to focus the first person coming into range, you don't actually need taunt (which might be one reason you're getting away with not levelling it).

Not going to comment on the actual guide any more at this time... but your reasoning for why this guide is good is real "meh", vodka.