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Shen Guide: Optimus Shen the Tank-Carry

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Samail

Junior Member

01-04-2011

Very good question ForeverLaxx. I had this explained, but I had to cut out some of the content.
It is a good complement to negatron cloak, which is essential. The argument about its move speed is sound and valid. Unless it is a heavy mage team, I rarely find the need to invest into finishing one of the negatron items. FoN is a good item, it just rarely complements my style of playing. If I am very low on health, I will just back to base, or go around killing creeps and minions, letting warmog's regeneration and vorpal to heal me. Moreover, the 1870g you need to finish it are more than half the second warmog or frozen mallet, which spell more burst ki damage.
I don't think it is that useful in a fight, unless it goes on for awhile, and I tend to push, wreak havoc, get focused, get a kill or assist, and get out.
If I need to finish my negatron cloak slot, the enemies are not mage heavy, and the outcome is not clear, I will probably get FoN. It is just not a priority. Moreover, the enemies will go at great length of stupidity to take you down, and if you are constantly full, you are not a good bait.
The boots of swiftness. I hate kills running away. The speed difference between swiftness and mercs is quite substantial. Whenever, I play with mercs, I know I will lose kills, and in the end I can lose, just because I lost enough kills. To some Shen is not required to kill runners, but he could with the right shoes.
Again: FoN and Merc threads work well. It is a question of style and situation, I guess.
Another note: the second Warmog. It is good. It is very good. Double the health, double the regen. I often get the Frozen Mallet instead. Good chunk of health, as well, and a slow effect, which comes pretty handy.


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superaznBX

Junior Member

01-04-2011

a well thought out guide. seems viable and im excited to try it. however it looks no different from an regular tank build for Shen. only difference is skill lvling and the game strategy.
i think u hav an unintended pun/ironic sentence
in the section where u are talking about feint, u say that feint and vorpal blade will make u a force of nature. do u mean u can easily farm gold for that item? do u like that item while u say its only an average item? are u psychic, and expected ppl to start talking bout that item and ur opinion on it? ironic much?


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Mezmrick

Senior Member

01-04-2011

Is that an intentional joke with the name? Optimus and Tank


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Vendoriz

Member

01-05-2011

this is da bomb!


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GhostDieM

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Anyone saying Shen is a bad farmer is a moron, just saying
On a side note this means that sunfire (while having nice bonuses for Shen) isn't really needed.


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Samail

Junior Member

01-05-2011

Burbinator
"You should not be building items aiming to increase ki strike by some more. It's a helpful passive, but letting it dictate your build is a terrible idea. Warmogs at base increases your ki strike by 32~ damage, at full stacks its 48~. Great, you do an extra 48 magic damage every couple of seconds. How worthless (the damage bonus, that is). Unless you get a really good taunt on multiple champoins, the dps from this is terrible.
...
Warmogs isn't "worst item in the game anymore" but you need a really REALLY good reason to get it before resists. Shen's passive is not such a reason
."

Good arguments. I get Warmog after sunfire and the negatron. The negatron is usually enough to last me through mid game. The armor from sunfire is also sizable, together with the +5 armor per level. So Warmog comes after the basic resist. I am sure the math behind resistance vs health will show the better item build, but I find stacking health to work early and mid game. Quite often the game is over before I even finish Warmog. Moreover stacking resist is very situational in every game, while health is kind of working for each.

As for the damage from Ki. I am not building items to make Shen dps. I still believe Shen is a tank. His dps comes from the skill path I take: maximizing vorpal first. However, since I play very aggressively early and mid game, I can use any damage boost I can get, and the benefit of having more health translates into more Ki. Late game my Vorpal damage and the ki damage diminish significantly, but late game my role is to dash more and tank the hell out of it.

"it's also quite silly to be ignoring aegis on shen. It's hands down the most cost effective item in any fight that isn't 1v1. Just becaues it's not as obvious as OMFG SUNFIRE BURNING doesn't mean it's bad. No, it won't solve people playing bad, but really what does?"

Aegis is a good item. When I play some characters, it is always on the list. The team benefit from it is very good. I just don't see it on Shen, the way I play him. Besides, aegis is kind of a support character item, and Shen is hardly support with this playstyle.

"another thing, boots of swiftness is usually inferior. If you're chasing, then it's better to have less duration on cc, because you can catch up with taunt. If you're being chased, you want less duration on cc so you can survive long enough to dash through a wall. It's very nice if you can get ninja tabi instead (if they have lots of AD) because with taunt + mobility mastery, you will almost always proc the bonus move speed in a teamfight."

All valid arguments. Swiftness is inferior to mercs in all aspects but one: speed. However,If they have cc, I probably won't catch them, anyway. If they are many and heavy on cc, chances are they will catch me even with the mercs.
As for the ninja tabi it will be useful, only if I run away. Still, both items give me better survivability, but I usually trade it off to get that one runner, who would otherwise get away.

As for quints this is what I have right now. I want the energy regeneration, and I am saving from them. I can't say if they are good, and improve my gameplay, until I try them. I am very energy hungry, though, and quints, and yellows are the only way I can address this issue.

On feint better than taunt. It is not. There is no room for comparison: they are apples and oranges. I find it better to invest in feint for mid game for my personal survivability. While taunt comes central in late game, where it really shines in my opinion. Shen is not like Rammus, where his abilities and tactics are all about teamplay. Shen has very good abilities, which benefit only himself, but they benefit greatly in early and mid game. Vorpal is weak late game, when everyone has resists and health. Feint has diminished capabilities late game, when most players will hit you like a truck. It is taunt time. However, if you invest in Q and W early and mid game, you will get kills, and moreover a real, terrifying presence on the battlefield.


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Samail

Junior Member

01-05-2011

GhostDieM "Anyone saying Shen is a bad farmer is a moron, just saying
On a side note this means that sunfire (while having nice bonuses for Shen) isn't really needed."

Thank you. I don't get it, how you can be bad with vorpal. As for really needing sunfire..., I find it mostly helpful. makes farming the big double waves of minions fast, and nice chunk of health and armor. I don't like it only for one reason. Mid game, when I push a lane, and only one guy comes to stop me at their tower. He hits me with everything he has, and I feint it out, and I could probably take the tower down ignoring him, but sunfire damages him and the turret targets me. That's a negative there.

Vendoriz "this is da bomb!"

Thanks man. Try it out, and see how it works. Share your opinion here.

Mezmrick "Is that an intentional joke with the name? Optimus and Tank"

Absolutely. I am a fan of the guy since the 80's. He is a tank-carry. Truck-carry, actually.

superaznBX "a well thought out guide. seems viable and im excited to try it. however it looks no different from an regular tank build for Shen. only difference is skill lvling and the game strategy."


Absolutely. Shen is a tank to me. However, the skill leveling diminishes his tanking capabilities according to many people. In my opinion it just makes you a tank in another sense--the enemy team will hate your guts and target you. And there is still 1 point in feint, which in many cases can save a life.
As for the unintended pun you are right. It was unintended. I meant a regular force of nature like a lightning storm or a real-estate market bubble.


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Samail

Junior Member

01-05-2011

Quote:
Alex Pan:
1.You can win normal games regardless of team comp, and ranked games aren't worth dodging.
2. Horrible items. Warmogs on Shen? Boots of Swiftness? Most games will be over before you even finish your core items. That's not what core items are.
3. Gold quints and energy regen quints are horrible.
4. Ignite + Teleport Shen is worse than Smite Pantheon.
5. Don't max W over E
6. This is just really bad and I never actually read the guide, I just scanned it. I'm sure I would rage even harder if I read the whole thing.



Edit: Oh wait, one more thing:

"IF A PLAYER IS NOT USEFUL BY HIMSELF, HE IS NOT USEFUL FOR THE TEAM, AND HE IS NOT USEFUL AT ALL. DON’T BE USELESS!!!"

You're really, really, really, really bad.



Yes, yes, yes I am.
A lot of statements, and no arguments. Point 6 is my favorite. Troll.


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Mezmrick

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Quote:
Samail:

Mezmrick "Is that an intentional joke with the name? Optimus and Tank"

Absolutely. I am a fan of the guy since the 80's. He is a tank-carry. Truck-carry, actually.


You sir gain points for that. Roll Out.


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livestock

Senior Member

01-05-2011

shen is a bad farmer if you compare him to other champions. yes it is easy to last hit in lane iwth ki and vorpal but then conside the abilities other champions have, karthus' defile, amumus tantrum, malphites ground slam, twisted fates wild card, udyrs phoenix, mf's make it rain etc. i could go on and on shens farming ability is lackluster compared to other champions and takes ages to fully farm up a warmogs