Need help? A guide to ELO and ways to improve your rating.

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DarkPsx

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Senior Member

01-05-2011

I'm pretty sure you've missed the point. The post doesn't assume that you will win every game playing your best - even the highest rated players have a 60%+ win ratio, not 90%. It is the consistency in which you play well - this CAN GREATLY AFFECT the outcome of the game. If you notice in most cases, yes you only win about 12 points per game, that's fine. if you get lucky, you're winning 1 game due to your other players applying their own skill to boost your rating, and if this was the case, CHANCES are that the next game, you will be challenged by higher rated players, be forced to play in that level, and most likely be one of the reasons for losing.

At some extent, carrying is a big factor in a game. This does not mean it is the only factor. As the post has mentioned above, its useless if a carry gets sniped because no one did their job as support to defend the carry, taunt off the carry, support the carry, stun for the carry, etc. In higher ratings, when I become near last pick, I pick support and fulfil my role as best I can with all the knowledge I have. Sure I'd rather carry, but matchmaking has given me a reason to let others do it (they got to choose first).

ELO is about consistency. In the beginning, you will win/lose elo very fast - this is to speed up the process in which it will place you in whichever bracket you belong. In 8 games, you could win yourself into the 1500-1600 bracket. In that case, the system wants you to be there because you have given it a reason to believe that you actually perform at that level. When your ELO "caps out", that is when you start to earn and lose around 10 rating per game. ELO has then decided - this is the level in which you play. If you want to get out of this rating, something about your playstyle needs to change. You then need to show you have improved some part of your gameplay where you can win 8 games in a row to go up 100 rating.

And guess what a good way to increase your odds of winning are. Fulfilling your role. Knowing the game, using mechanics to your advantage. Teamwork. Will you always win? No. Will you destroy teams that don't talk? Most likely. Playing smart will increase your rating and show the system you are somewhere higher than you belong.

If you have more comments or questions - feel free to keep posting.

*edit* I forgot to mention - as you are winning, you need to be learning. If you've jumped almost 200 rating (lets say from 1400 to 1600) and you have just been going through the motions and not really thinking about it, there's a good chance you are going to get pulled back down. Make sure you are learning and being consistent with good playstyle and manner.


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BlueBuddha

Senior Member

01-06-2011

Great Read ++
Totally agree, people need to let go of their ego's, get along with their teams and try and learn from everything possible. Learn from the guy being a **** on your team even though its so easy to get into a words battle with him, learn from from your enemies, think about wins and losses and learn from them, learn from the forums. There is a lot to learn and will always be room for improvement.


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Onisake

Senior Member

01-06-2011

double post. my bad.


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Onisake

Senior Member

01-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPsx View Post
I'm pretty sure you've missed the point. The post doesn't assume that you will win every game playing your best - even the highest rated players have a 60%+ win ratio, not 90%. It is the consistency in which you play well - this CAN GREATLY AFFECT the outcome of the game. If you notice in most cases, yes you only win about 12 points per game, that's fine. if you get lucky, you're winning 1 game due to your other players applying their own skill to boost your rating, and if this was the case, CHANCES are that the next game, you will be challenged by higher rated players, be forced to play in that level, and most likely be one of the reasons for losing.

At some extent, carrying is a big factor in a game. This does not mean it is the only factor. As the post has mentioned above, its useless if a carry gets sniped because no one did their job as support to defend the carry, taunt off the carry, support the carry, stun for the carry, etc. In higher ratings, when I become near last pick, I pick support and fulfil my role as best I can with all the knowledge I have. Sure I'd rather carry, but matchmaking has given me a reason to let others do it (they got to choose first).

ELO is about consistency. In the beginning, you will win/lose elo very fast - this is to speed up the process in which it will place you in whichever bracket you belong. In 8 games, you could win yourself into the 1500-1600 bracket. In that case, the system wants you to be there because you have given it a reason to believe that you actually perform at that level. When your ELO "caps out", that is when you start to earn and lose around 10 rating per game. ELO has then decided - this is the level in which you play. If you want to get out of this rating, something about your playstyle needs to change. You then need to show you have improved some part of your gameplay where you can win 8 games in a row to go up 100 rating.

And guess what a good way to increase your odds of winning are. Fulfilling your role. Knowing the game, using mechanics to your advantage. Teamwork. Will you always win? No. Will you destroy teams that don't talk? Most likely. Playing smart will increase your rating and show the system you are somewhere higher than you belong.

If you have more comments or questions - feel free to keep posting.

*edit* I forgot to mention - as you are winning, you need to be learning. If you've jumped almost 200 rating (lets say from 1400 to 1600) and you have just been going through the motions and not really thinking about it, there's a good chance you are going to get pulled back down. Make sure you are learning and being consistent with good playstyle and manner.
I'm pretty sure I didn't. you're trying to tell our newbies to 'try hard.' and you'll end up where you want to be. it's not that easy. your champion selection and overall skill level with multiple champs is important. you can't always play your favorite carry because it imbalances your team, making you too easy to counter.

you've forgotten the fundamental flaws of the current system.

1) it's a team game: luck is involved
2) if you do everything you're suppose to, you can lose 8-10 games in a row because of pure random luck of bad pugs
3) KDA is a trinket badge. i've gone 22/1/3 in plenty of games in loss, carrying hard but still losing because the pugs are just that bad, and it's easy to counter one champ.
4) your odds increase when you fulfill your role, but it's only a slight increase, unless you play the right champ(s)

you're essentially writing a self help book: let's tell everyone stuff they should already know! you improve by wanting to improve, you need to fulfill your own role in battle, ie if you're a tank and you build DPS you're not gong to do as well. really!? OMG! I HAD NO IDEA! TANKS TANK!? SUPPORT SUPPORTS!?!?!!!! . . .please...if they dont' know that by now, they deserve to be sub 800 ELO. if you aren't thinking about your own level of play critically, you're going to do terribly. end of story.

you missed my point: you need to state that it's easier to carry with some champs than others. ashe, MF, malphite, shen, rammus. it's easy to carry with these champs because they are 'complete.' carries. they can do everything a team needs.

you carry 14 games in a row with my previous list and then you can tell me i'm wrong.

you also failed to mention the champs you used when you did this little exercise. are they 'complete' carries? i bet they are.

if you look, and actually read what most people say when a newbie asks 'how do i get to a higher elo?' 90% of the time the answer is 'learn to carry.' even you said that. you will need to carry to climb ELO ranks. guess what? some champs can't carry. so all of a sudden if you want to have a high ranking, you need to be good with a certain sect of champs.

a guide should consist of things you dont' know yet. granted, some newbies haven't quite grasped that tanks need to tank: don't get a lot of kills, get lots of assists, and initiate/die so the team can win in some cases.

what newbies dont' know: you need to get good with a variety of high level champs. there are several roles you can play in a match.during champ select: i make a guess at who's going to win assuming equal skill level based on champs picked. i'm correct about 50% of the time. which isn't bad considering skill > items > champ.

you've essentially encouraged peopel to find a niche, and stay there. you can't do that in high level play in solo queue. arranged, yes. but not solo.

i'm best with AP casters/support. As i stated. if i'm at the bottom of the queue, i mention this to my team. 'i'm best with AP casters/support.' if two of my team mates pick AP casters before me, i see the enemy already has two tanks that are easy to build anti-caster, what do i do? pick my favorite caster so i can perform at my very best? or do i fill the game, grab one of my DPS or tanks i'm 'okay' with so my team isn't unbalanced?

i think you know the correct answer to that. but i've seen it happen when i'm at the top of the queue. I say i'm going AP. and i pick an AP. then the person after me picks AP, the person after him picks AP...and then the last person picks AP, so we have 4 AP, and a tank. despite me saying we should probably get some DPS, since they have a galio and mord/malph/nunu that can easily counter us. guess what happens? BVs, treads, and MR on the other team, shutting us down completely.

you're giving newbies false hope that it's 'easy' to climb ranks after your initial mistakes. its' not. to really increase your chances, you need to do everything you said AND be able to fulfill any role the team requires and carry from that position.

that's the big secret behind 'learn to carry newb.'


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DarkPsx

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Senior Member

01-06-2011

You still don't get it.

This is not about "how to boost your rating automatically to the 2000+". This post is meant to focus on techniques that are utilized to expand on higher level play. Technically, your words would imply a system where all the carries are all high rated. In that case, in solo queue, who plays supports when the MM is full of 1850+ players? They all carried to get up there right?

And now that all those players are there, what sets them apart from each other? How fast they react? How much they've played the game? How well they know the game? There are an infinite number of random variables. This is why your counter arguments are not helping the thread.

My posts are designed to promote a better sense of general gameplay that not everyone may have been exposed to. Just because you have seen all this stuff before, doesn't mean everyone else has. If you're telling me that a post like this is completely useless, I would like you to please make a poll on this thread to see how many players agree with you. This is a team game. Collectively, skill and good technique come into play as a team, and this is where every player has their own chance to shine in each game. As players start to become more educated in this respect, they will begin to improve - these improvements could make or break the game, you never know. The difference between someone who consistently doesn't die verses someone that dives everytime. You think everyone knows the consequences and how to weigh them?


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Onisake

Senior Member

01-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPsx View Post
You still don't get it.

This is not about "how to boost your rating automatically to the 2000+". This post is meant to focus on techniques that are utilized to expand on higher level play. Technically, your words would imply a system where all the carries are all high rated. In that case, in solo queue, who plays supports when the MM is full of 1850+ players? They all carried to get up there right?

And now that all those players are there, what sets them apart from each other? How fast they react? How much they've played the game? How well they know the game? There are an infinite number of random variables. This is why your counter arguments are not helping the thread.

My posts are designed to promote a better sense of general gameplay that not everyone may have been exposed to. Just because you have seen all this stuff before, doesn't mean everyone else has. If you're telling me that a post like this is completely useless, I would like you to please make a poll on this thread to see how many players agree with you. This is a team game. Collectively, skill and good technique come into play as a team, and this is where every player has their own chance to shine in each game. As players start to become more educated in this respect, they will begin to improve - these improvements could make or break the game, you never know. The difference between someone who consistently doesn't die verses someone that dives everytime. You think everyone knows the consequences and how to weigh them?
i understand what you're saying. you're not understanding what i'm saying

what you're saying is incomplete. you're just touching the tip of the iceberg. everything you said, is the basics of the basics of getting to higher level play. if a player hasn't figured out what you've said already, they have no business even beginning to think of playing competitively.

everyone who's giving you glorious praise, either doesn't get it, or is short sighted. what you've said is a good start. i was trying to expand on it. i did it in a negative way, yes. but this is the internetz. get over it. a poll is pointless. asking the mindless masses if they prefer a nice guy, or a ****head who's saying it's not good enough. 9/10 they're gonna go for the try-hard nice guy.

too bad, you know what they say about nice guys?

you've listed NO techniques, just self help 'hey, you should learn to play your champ. you shouldn't be rude.' ...wow...that's advice? sorry, i'll go somewhere else. if thats' the best you have to offer. a guide should consist of both basic and advanced techinques. you've only listed basics. not only that, it's basics they should have known by level 25. tanks tank? supports support? don't be rude? be constructive and know you can improve? that's your 'advice?'

the best part of your post, is the 'skill bracket' assessment between the different tiers in ELO. but even that's more of a ballpark. as i'm sure there are guys who will complain about you not calling an MIA, even though you've warded the gank path and they just weren't paying attention.

i expanded a little, saying you need to think of the different roles a champion can fulfill. some champs are niche. other's aren't you should focus on the multi-role champs. not just your favorite champ. IE ashe is a better ranged carry than sivir. as much as you may love sivir. you're better off biting a bullet and playing ashe.

a post like this is pointless, because by the time a player gets to competitive play, they should already know this. of course, that doesn't mean they do. i agree in that regard. however, like i said, this is basics of the basics. you need to expand far more on what you have. you ending with things people should already know, and then saying 'that's all i can think of.' without mentioning anything about team composition strategy or countering specific 'trouble.' champs.

it's more of a 'how to play LoL' guide than a 'how to improve your ELO.' guide. sorry, i'm just not impressed.


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1scythe1

Senior Member

01-07-2011

Great thread. Coming from other competitive games, I am leveling up now, getting to know the game and found myself wondering what endgame looked like when I found this board. You both have good points but I agree with Onisake as Dark just covered the "Welcome to LoL Basics". It would be better suited in the Guides & Strats or General Discussion board because to play ranked you should have at least an intermediate level grasp on how things work in this game (i.e. knowing champs strengths/weaknesses, map/situation reading, communication, general gameplay and being proficient with a variety of champs).

Having said that, I learned some things from both of you when the main reason I opened this thread was to find out what ELO was and neither of you answered that, it was TacticFail that came through with that info since the title is "Need help? A guide to ELO and ways to improve your rating." But again, you should already know that if you are playing ranked.

Cheers!


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Adakkar

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Member

01-07-2011

Meh, you are both right.While Onisake is going about it in a more berating way, he still has some solid points. The thread title becomes a misnomer, but his advice actually helps to bring that title around.

In all honesty, I kind of hope you two keep arguing as it seems lots of good information is seeping into those arguements, hehe.

One good thing to possibly list is what the top players all think are non-competetive champs. That is, those that absolutely do not bring to the table what is required given that both sides have players of equal skill. (I know an unlikely situation but it is really the only true way to measure)

In any case I shall watch the thread for all the bits of information that dribble out.


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Onisake

Senior Member

01-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adakkar View Post
Meh, you are both right.While Onisake is going about it in a more berating way, he still has some solid points. The thread title becomes a misnomer, but his advice actually helps to bring that title around.

In all honesty, I kind of hope you two keep arguing as it seems lots of good information is seeping into those arguements, hehe.

One good thing to possibly list is what the top players all think are non-competetive champs. That is, those that absolutely do not bring to the table what is required given that both sides have players of equal skill. (I know an unlikely situation but it is really the only true way to measure)

In any case I shall watch the thread for all the bits of information that dribble out.
yeah. i'm an a-hole. can't help it. but i wouldn't keep arguing if i didn't think what i was saying was important. as long as dark is willing to 'talk' about it. i'm willing to listen and counter-argue.

at the upper echelons, everyone has relatively the same skill level, and knows how to build their champ. which means when looking at the formula skill > items > champ. skill and items are relatively equal between the two teams. so it comes down to champ. at higher level games, you can guess with high accuracy who will win based on champ selection.

let's take a look at the ionian noxus rematch.

Soraka (Support)
Udyr (jungler)
Ashe (ranged carry)
Kennen (caster)
amumu (tank)

Vs.

Sion (jungler)
MF (Ranged Carry)
Vlad (Caster)
Singed (tank)
Morgana (support)

Support vs support

i don't think there's an arguement here. Morgana is better than soraka. Noxus wins

Carry vs carry

Ashe and MF is a bit of a toss up. but most of the time, ashe is goign to win. she's easier to play, her slow is more reliable, and her ult is better than MFs ult. Ionia wins

Caster vs caser

Kennen beats vlad. vlad has a lot of hp, but kennen does more damage and has a stun. vlad has a good escape mechanism, but it's easy to bypass because of how slow he is. ionia wins

tank vs tank

amu is a far superior tank. he does more damage, can absorb more damage, and has two CC abilities. singed only really has his toss. so early game singed has an advantage. but seeing how the teams are relatively equal in skill, amu will trump singed.

jungler vs jungler

again, not much of an arguement. Udyr is far better than sion. sion has a stun, which is useful in team fights and ganking, but so does udyr. and udyr is both faster, and does more damage.

so looking at how each champ in their respective role pans out, Ionia has a clear advantage. and my prediction for the match was in favor of Ionia. you can do a similar breakdown for everyother high-profile match and you will likely get simliar results.

at a certain skill level, champ selection becomes more important, because everyone knows how to build, how to play. it comes down to an old saying: the battle was won before it began. i'd say around 80% of my ranked games, the match was won or lost during the draft. very few people know how to pick champs to hard counter other champs.they just pick their favorites instead.


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lillkilla

Senior Member

01-07-2011

fact of the matter is that in this game ELO means nothing about your solo skill level. it goes down when you lose ranked games with a horrendous team, therefore keeping you forever in this elo. if you want your elo to go up you need 5 people that play together extremely well. great guide tho.


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