Skarner Rework Follow Through

First Riot Post
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Karede

Senior Member

04-07-2014

Glad you came back Scruffy.

Now can we PLEASE get something to compete against the absolutely brokenly OP Lee Sin champion?


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Merlle

Member

04-07-2014

For Skarner, the only real fix is to change his E

The bonus AS on his 1 improves his clear, but the overall sustainability of him as a character is lost. Skarner overall loses his key identity, early harass

my suggestion would be to look at what happens when you both increase the width of the E to make it a bit easier to hit, and to see what happens to current skarner if his E also returned a small amount of health (Say 1% max hp or some flat value per level) to give him back what really made him such a likeable, albeit annoying character to play against

-A devoted Skarner player


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Shahamut

Senior Member

04-07-2014

I would like some sustain back in the kit as well. However, I am in favor of a small heal on activation of shield, plus some major regen while the shield remains active, keeping the counter play aspect in mind.

50/75/100/125/150(+50%AP) Health instant

.5%/.75%/1%/1.25%/1.5%(+1%AP)% missing health per second while shield is active

(max=7.5%(+5%AP)% over 5 seconds

Something like that.


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MajorPain9

Senior Member

04-07-2014

Quote:
4.6 is actually a really fast cycle compared to recent patch releases. I believe the Skarner changes are currently planned for 4.7.
http://community.na.leagueoflegends....patch-forecast

GOD DAMN IT

Really? RENGAR KASSADIN AND GRAGAS!?!?!

We have been BEGGING FOR SOME TIME OF INTERACTION OR FIX FOR MONTHS! THIS IS BULL****


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Vejoviis

Member

04-07-2014

I played at least 500 Skarner games in season 2 before the ult nerfs, at that time he was my favorite champion.

I personally support the idea of extending the E slow as a method of adding stickiness. The slow isn't nearly as effective if you can only refresh it on targets that you hit in several instances
1. His 2v2s toplane with melees were ridiculous since he could force either champion out of the fight with Q slow (in addition to being a very strong duelist) - now he has to choose and their is opportunity for the enemy to play around it rather than two champions beating on your ally as you are Q slowed an unable to reach melee range in a reasonable time frame.
2. The slow in early/ midgame team fights really gummed everything up due to the extended nature of low item fights - with it being restricted to only a few (one if the team avoids clumping) it forces Skarner to commit (and telegraph) who he can potentially slow. In lategame teamfights it makes it so Skarner can't change roles and peel kitable bruisers with ease if he already used his E.
3. If you made it so that it only applies on the 2nd/ 3rd Q or auto (or perhaps have the slow proc be unavailiable after ulting) then this would really help the situation of the person who gets flash ulted by Skarner, not being perma slowed afterwards helps chances quite a bit. They still aren't good, but I can feel the difference between flash ulting season 2, which was guaranteed death, and now where it is just almost certain (kind of)

A possible option that seems interesting is having Skarner slowly gain "slow proc stacks" (either on his E or just his Q, inside or outside combat - a lot of options) just like Corki stores missles. This allows for the mechanic without it being infinite. If you wanted to increase the skill/ investment you could increase the CD on E to balance this - or make it a thing where Skarner can reactivate his E within 1 second to create the "slow marks" for a duration, but at a cost (such as his E CD not refreshing until the slow marks are deactivated). This added complexity might make his binary game play a bit more dynamic (I mean, it's still scuttle into melee range), making it easier for him to have strengths and being potentially balanced.

EDIT:
If he gains the capacity to stick I can really see his buffed shield becoming an issue in the midgame if the numbers are such that he can choose to max W second and have strong sticking. If the activating "slow charges" idea seems attractive then there could be some tie to weakening his shield if he is using charges - from a flavor perspective this makes sense since he is committing his energy elsewhere
EDIT2: If he had to choose between his passive or using slow charges (or a reduction in passive) this could also be interesting - something like if his passive scaled with his held charges. This seems kind of convoluted though. It does reward running though, even if you are getting slowed, since you are draining Skarner's power if he wants to stick to you - from a flavor perspective I think this is really cool.

Yeah, something that gave more options would be cool. Right now it's not really like "how am I going to play this" it's "how can I get in melee range and then roll my face on the keyboard (spacing choices, but not that many)". (Actually I just feel like a predator, waiting to flash ult)


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LouisLeGros

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Senior Member

04-07-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlle View Post
For Skarner, the only real fix is to change his E

The bonus AS on his 1 improves his clear, but the overall sustainability of him as a character is lost. Skarner overall loses his key identity, early harass

my suggestion would be to look at what happens when you both increase the width of the E to make it a bit easier to hit, and to see what happens to current skarner if his E also returned a small amount of health (Say 1% max hp or some flat value per level) to give him back what really made him such a likeable, albeit annoying character to play against

-A devoted Skarner player
For being a devoted Skarner player I'm having a hard time understanding where you are coming from with your feedback.

First you talk about improvements to his clear, implying you are talking about his role as a jungler. Then you immediately start talking about his E, early harass, sustainability and it being part of his central identity which would only apply to lane Skarner. Jungle Skarner (which has always been his primary role and the role that Riot clearly is trying to keep him in with the remake) didn't level E and really didn't have sustain problems. Sure it was nice end game when you had items and could afford to cast it in teamfights and consumes the stacks for a decent heal, but early on it was the butt of every Skarner joke and far from being central to his identity.

Sure I've heard from people played lane Skarner and how E's sustain was useful there. However, it was never the big reason to play Skarner, it was always the rest of the kit.

Hell you even imply that E was part of the problem that people had against Skarner/part of what made him annoying to play against when he was strong. It was the permaslow + tankiness + ult that people complained about, I've never heard a single person complain about his E in the thousands posts that I've read on the forums.


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EchoezOfRain

Senior Member

04-08-2014

So no upcoming changes to Skarner...mmkay

Skarner removed from URF...mmkay


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encyclopedea

Senior Member

04-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorPain9 View Post
http://community.na.leagueoflegends....patch-forecast

GOD DAMN IT

Really? RENGAR KASSADIN AND GRAGAS!?!?!

We have been BEGGING FOR SOME TIME OF INTERACTION OR FIX FOR MONTHS! THIS IS BULL****

Leave off Scruffy a bit. If 4.6 really is a fast patch, then Scruffy won't have the time to test his changes before it hits. Scruffy said he was testing changes and talking with "the team", which seems to me like they're going to implement a larger change to Skarner than just making his E faster, which is what a lot of us want. If Scruffy fails to notify us about this stuff in the next week or so, feel free to go ham on him, but at least give him a little bit of time, since he responded AND put a general time interval on it.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

04-08-2014

Here here! He said probably would have an update for us this week, lets at least give him that time before we get upset again.

Thanks Scruffy


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The Drippy Sink

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Senior Member

04-08-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
We still have plans for Skarner, mostly in the realm of bringing excitement and a bit of the old identity that people liked about the old Skarner back.

We can keep a lot of the gameplay gains (versatility, windows of power/weakness) and add a bit more stickiness/cc control that people liked about the old kit. I've been in ongoing discussions about these changes with a lot of the team, and I should get down to implementing them sometime next week. When we have a more final changelist, I'll let you know what we intend to do.
I like the new Skarner.

Can't wait to see what's in store for him, regardless.

Good job, guys!