Skarner Rework Follow Through

First Riot Post
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MajorPain9

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliqueCrow View Post
Okay you're being rude for no apparent reason. And pick him because you enjoy him for crying out loud. You're not on a pro team so who cares who you play? And like I said earlier, I agree 100% that he is at BEST a niche' pick. Sorry you're taking it upon yourself to limit your champion pool because you're busy bandwagoning, if you don't have fun playing him, don't do it. But don't hate on Riot, or other people. Explain to me why he's so horrible? Even then great for you, don't play him. Just relax on the hate and play people you like. Have you tried FOTM? Seems more like your style
Dude you don't even have a proper rune page list, or play at ranked level? I am glad your having fun with him (at least someone is. RIOT WE FOUND ONE!!!) but wait until ranked to make a solid opinion or comment on champion design.


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CliqueCrow

Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by encyclopedea View Post
Sorry, tempers tend to run a little high around here because we feel quite annoyed with Riot, and Scruffy in particular. Many players, from all levels of skill ranges, said no to this rework before it was even released onto PBE. Even many of those who agreed with the rework wanted some changes done. However, Scruffy almost completely disappeared before the rework hit PBE, and even when he did post something, it was horribly out of touch with what the community wanted. So, as you can imagine, people tend to be a little ticked off because of this.

In terms of your earlier posts, you are completely entitled to enjoy playing Skarner. You are completely entitled to post that here. However, if you do, the best way to avoid getting bashed is to explain why you like playing him- not the ways you have fixed the problems that he has inherently by picking different summoner spells or building different items, just a step-by-step analysis of why you enjoyed playing him. A post containing something like that would give both the community and Scruffy MUCH more to work with than "HE'S FUN LOL, STOP BASHING CAUSE I SAID A CHAMPION WAS GOOD, NOOBS" (not exactly what you said, but its actually fairly close, and it's probably how the community sees it).

Fair enough. I know I'm not a very high ranked player, I do have a level 30, also not a big ranked guy. I'm not trying to act like I know a ton I was just throwing my 2 cents into the ring. As for what I enjoy about Skarner: His Q is a pretty easy way to dish out sustained damage during 1v1's or small skirmishes and the attack speed buff makes clears super easy, which obviously works super well with his passive. I like that his attack speed buff also doesn't disappear when his shield breaks. The W movespeed buff+boots+TF move speed enhance is more than enough chase potential. His E is a really nice slow with a good range and width. E+W+Passive makes escaping from Skarner nigh but impossible. And obviously his ult is a guaranteed kill if you team can follow it up. If you're in a 5v5 a flash ult instantly makes its 4v5.

IDK he's just a blast to play. Moves around the map really well and I feel like he's more fighter than tank. I usually have SoFG, Tabi, Frozen Heart, Banshee's, TF, and a situational last pick.

Sorry if I was coming off ignorant earlier, I just don't like seeing random hate being thrown around


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Mech Lord Yhnmk

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliqueCrow View Post
Fair enough. I know I'm not a very high ranked player, I do have a level 30, also not a big ranked guy. I'm not trying to act like I know a ton I was just throwing my 2 cents into the ring.
I am glad someone likes him, but not shocked it is not someone who never played pre-rework skarner, at least not a lot
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliqueCrow View Post
As for what I enjoy about Skarner: His Q is a pretty easy way to dish out sustained damage during 1v1's or small skirmishes and the attack speed buff makes clears super easy, which obviously works super well with his passive. I like that his attack speed buff also doesn't disappear when his shield breaks. The W movespeed buff+boots+TF move speed enhance is more than enough chase potential. His E is a really nice slow with a good range and width. E+W+Passive makes escaping from Skarner nigh but impossible. And obviously his ult is a guaranteed kill if you team can follow it up. If you're in a 5v5 a flash ult instantly makes its 4v5.

IDK he's just a blast to play. Moves around the map really well and I feel like he's more fighter than tank. I usually have SoFG, Tabi, Frozen Heart, Banshee's, TF, and a situational last pick.

Sorry if I was coming off ignorant earlier, I just don't like seeing random hate being thrown around
You see reading everything here I see all the elements that I liked about pre-rework skarner, with some missing.

His Q is the same in function only his E+W+ passive didn't make it impossible to escape, it was just his Q and orb walking.

I liked his W and AS being tied to his armor as you build tanky (as you do) having the armor up forced people to attack you, since you don't have any hard engage/CC, and your ult may come back on the ass end of a team fight, Having your shield up was as good as a taunt if not better, cause if they did not attack you you just won the fight.

You are now missing his spamming his Old E to mitagate damage mid team fight, keeping you alive and dealing damage whilst your W is down.

Skarner had a flow, people focused him when his shield was up, but if they continued to do so his E would help him to outlast them, or have them waste so much time on skarner his allies would kill them after he died. While this was going on he had a perma-slow helping him peel for his carrys, or stick to their carrys, and periodically getting his ult to guarantee a duel.

Flash ult was usually a guaranteed kill for someone just outside of tower range with Shruellias and your perma slow, in a 1v1 scen so long as they did not have a escape up. The main problem is all your items become too expensive, I find getting TF on Hec risky, yet half as risky as with skarner, and if I do get full build hec with TF I can carry twice as hard, the back lane is my appetizer, the front lane my desert. With skarner you can't just blitz to the back lane, you have to be patient, peel, try to do sustained damage. you are right new skarner feels like a fighter, but when you can't leap on high priority targets, you die quick. Old skarner felt like a fighter when his W was up and a tank when it was down, to me this made him perfect and one of the most unique champs in the game.

You seem to like skarner as just his fighter component, which to me was only half of his character, and if anything he was a tank first.


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CliqueCrow

Member

04-04-2014

I would also really like Skarner to have his heal back, that seems like it would have been a really awesome mechanic and I totally get where you're coming from. While I didn't play him a ton I had friends who did or Youtube vids I watched. I'll go out on a limb and say that maybe full tank Skarner is dead. So I get why people are un-happy. I feel though that as a fighter Skarner is reborn so to speak. Maybe if some people stopped going full tank and tried the fighter aspect they'd hate the re-work less? I don't know but I feel like this will always be an on-the-fence topic. Love it or Hate it, no gray area. I just hope people give him a fair shot and start experimenting with him.


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NojusArturo

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Senior Member

04-04-2014

I think if the E was just a snare Skarner would be great.


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CliqueCrow

Member

04-04-2014

A snare would be cool, but only if they kept the current length/width/speed of it. Would make pre-6 ganks more interesting.


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MajorPain9

Senior Member

04-04-2014

This will be on the front page every day until we get some type of feedback or change. What gives Pwyff? Why is no one from riot actually doing something about this champions dread awful pick rate?


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Velkoz Reloaded

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliqueCrow View Post
Okay you're being rude for no apparent reason. And pick him because you enjoy him for crying out loud. You're not on a pro team so who cares who you play? And like I said earlier, I agree 100% that he is at BEST a niche' pick. Sorry you're taking it upon yourself to limit your champion pool because you're busy bandwagoning, if you don't have fun playing him, don't do it. But don't hate on Riot, or other people. Explain to me why he's so horrible? Even then great for you, don't play him. Just relax on the hate and play people you like. Have you tried FOTM? Seems more like your style
Yeah, sorry that people go over the top with being rude but that's what happens on the internet.

At best a Niche pick sounds about right, sorry if that's what you were trying to say and I missed it in your initial post.


Here's what I said in the other thread and I'll repost it here:
"Here is my response: I can play Skarner and have success with him. Even with the reworked kit, I played him so much last season that I don't have that hard of a time making his kit work. That said it's because he's uncommon and people aren't always sure what to do about me and because I'm a decent player. So if I base my opinion off of that then I would have to jump on board with you and say that Skarner is good. Unfortunately, I've also never lost to a Skarner. Because I've played him so much and I know his kit inside and out. If I based my assumptions off of that then I'd say that Skarner sucks.

I can play Urgot and have success with him. Heck, I could probably practice urgot until I got sick of playing him and I could win more often then I lose because I'd become familiar with his kit. Does this mean Urgot is good? Not really. It means that I'm a competent player and I know how to play a champion that I've practiced with. It means that perhaps I was better than the enemy team by maybe a significant margin.

The list could go on of underplayed, overplayed, strong or weak champions and people having success with them if those people are dedicated to playing them. So, maybe we just need to dedicate ourselves to playing Skarner all the time?

But what happens when the Lee Sin, Vi, Kha'zix, Elise, Evelynn, Warwick or Rengar on the enemy team plays their champion consistently? What do I offer my team that they don't? Lee Sin has high mobility, a good displacement ult, a shield, good damage and a fair amount of sustain. Vi has a ridiculous lockdown, some decent damage and a fair amount of CC. Elise has good mobility, high damage and a bit of CC. Rengar has high damage, a fair amount of sustain, decent mobility, STEALTH, and some CC. Kha'zix has decent mobility, Stealth, High Damage and a bit of sustain. Warwick has sustain and CC as well as a sight bonus for the team.

People who play a champion a lot can have some sound success with him. But on average, compared to other players on better (yes, I used that word) champions, they can't offer their team, or themselves as much someone who does play those other champs. Further, if this is the case, why would we bother with a weaker champion?

If I want a slow I'll pick Eve, Kha, Rengar, Mundo, Zac, Olaf, Tryndamere, Nasus- Hell, Karthus
If I want a displacement/lockdown I'll pick Lee Sin, Jarvan, Xin Zhao, Warwick, Vi, Amumu, Gragas
If I want damage I'll pick Kha, Eve, Rengar, Zed, Fizz
If I want a lot Crowd Control based champs: I'll pick Nautilus, Zac or maybe Vi

Skarner having a combination of two of these that other champs can do better does not make him a good champion. Someone having success with Skarner does not make him a good champion anymore than someone losing with him makes him a bad champion.


As you mentioned in a previous post, we feel that Skarner is outclassed. Not only do we feel that he's outclassed, we're baffled at how a few wins constitutes being ignored. We're annoyed that you guys apparently have seen mainly permaslow comments and thus marked us off as whiners; we're annoyed that a champion that used to have some nice combos really doesn't have any anymore in exchange for POTENTIAL damage (because it's really that easy to stick to someone). We're annoyed that you're forced to build items to make up for the holes in Skarner's kit while other champs can use said items to enhance their kits. We're annoyed that the rework took so long and was more or less a flat nerf. We're annoyed that our champion was changed in a way that makes him less fun to play and significantly less useful. And all we want at this point is for a second rework or some more CC, usefulness and less damage to be attached to his kit so he's fun and "able to be seen in competitive play". (Meaning he offers something other champs don't.)

If you need to scrap his kit entirely and change Skarner forever but you come back with a brand new scorpion that is incredibly fun to play, offers something to a team besides his ult, is unique in some way and can be picked in more than a handful of games, please do so."


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Hunter SSE

Junior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
I think if the E was just a snare Skarner would be great.
That... is actually a pretty good idea. Also the Q attack speed bonus goes away waaay too fast in my opinion.

Scruffy and Xelnath, why are you ignoring us?

...Also is Skarner's Battlecast Skin still in the works? I really wanna see it


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Shahamut

Senior Member

04-04-2014

The TLDR from another thread I posted in:

TLDR- Skarner has no area that he shines in. He can't split push, is not a good initiator for team fights, is only a mediocre duelist, and all of his skills are outclassed by almost all other champions with a similar ability.

My opinion: His abilities need to compare to others of the same function. As a fighter who looks for longer duration fights, he needs some sustain outside of just the shield. Adding a heal with regen contingent on the shield being up would be a good way to go, since you could still break the shield.

Did I clarify our concerns here?