Skarner Rework Follow Through

First Riot Post
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Hawkefire

Senior Member

03-27-2014

I am glad that Xelnath will actually communicate with us, it is a shame Scruffy would not do the same.

So much would have turned out better had he just given feedback to us and actually listened to our feedback instead of going forward with his agenda.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

03-27-2014

Breaking Down the Rework:

What Skarner Lost---------------------------What Skarner Gained

1)spammable slow on Q-----------------------1)Stacking attack speed buff (fairly weak) max 48%

2)50% AS buff on W(tied to shield)----------2)Slight increase to shield strength (50pnts at max, 10%AP)

3)1% base attack Speed----------------------3)Increased MS buff, max 32%, but with 3 second ramp up.

4)Minor Heal on E---------------------------4)Long ranged E with slow, smaller/slower missile.

5)Instant Speed burst, max 24%--------------5)???

Im just trying to figure out the "power budget" because I remember RIOTSCRUFFY saying before that without the "toxic" permaslow, it opens skarner up to buffs in other areas since it gives him some room for power budgeting.

Overall, he moves slower with his W (being tied to shield, the ramp up time isn't actually better till after 2.5 or 3 seconds, in which the enemy usually breaks the shield. So its better for crossing map in the long run, but is worse for initiating and for running.) Looks more like a nerf. A small one, but a nerf none the less.

His attack speed buff is more reliable, but only until your enemy uses an escape and can disengage for 5 seconds. The ammount was lowered by 2%, and because his base AS was reduced 1%, the % buffs work less effectively on him. Overall, its close to about the same, except one thing:
--Attack speed buff is no good vs towers/structures. Gameplay wise (since the game is about taking towers to get to the nexus) This looks like an overall nerf.

The more I play with the new Skarner, the more I like his E. The long range helps a lot. The slow has WAY more applications, even though it is short duration, not only for me, but for my team as well. Overall, this was a buff.

The shield on E was increased by 50pnts at max rank, and the AP ratio raised 10%. Im going to simply compare this to the heal that was lost (since that was what it was meant to cover). I can say without doubt, that late game, the heal was better. In a recent game, there were several face-offs where I was neck in neck with Renekton, after he burst my shield (pretty quickly still) Im without any kind of sustain for at least 12 seconds (auto attacks). Having the slightly smaller shield in conjunction with the heal was better, so in the area of sustain, I would call this a nerf.

Skarner's Ultimate took a substantial (in my opinion) indirect nerf. The ramp up time on the shield SEVERLY limits how far you can pull your opponent. NOTE: in a fight, your shield wont last 3 seconds for you to charge it up and then grab. This combo (R,W, RUN!) was one of the things that made Skarner's ult so much fun for me. The ramp up speed has killed that for me though.

So am I misunderstanding something here? I really think that the new Skarner has potential, but I think he is still missing a lot of previous power. Scruffy's statements prior to the rework, my thoughts here, and multiple rioters admitting to his "under-tuned" current state is what I am going on.

Help please?


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Velkoz Reloaded

Senior Member

03-27-2014

I've been trying out Xelnath's Skarner build/runes/masteries.

Not a big fan. I can see how he's had success because IF the enemy team lets you sit in them, his build hurts but in a fight, there's no reason they shouldn't A) run away from Skarner or B) just straight up nuke you and laugh when you die.

Skarner can do well if his team works with him but as people have said there's not much he can do by himself. He certainly doesn't offer much that I care for anymore. I'm pretty sure any jungler could have as much success if their team helps them. I dunno.

I think saying Skarner is extremely viable is an overstatement. Maybe mildly viable in a super ridiculous niche pick but not near 100% viable and certainly not extremely.

@Shahamut, I wondered that too


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Limbo Pete

Senior Member

03-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RakdosRageMutt View Post
I've been trying out Xelnath's Skarner build/runes/masteries.

Not a big fan. I can see how he's had success because IF the enemy team lets you sit in them, his build hurts but in a fight, there's no reason they shouldn't A) run away from Skarner or B) just straight up nuke you and laugh when you die.

Skarner can do well if his team works with him but as people have said there's not much he can do by himself. He certainly doesn't offer much that I care for anymore. I'm pretty sure any jungler could have as much success if their team helps them. I dunno.

I think saying Skarner is extremely viable is an overstatement. Maybe mildly viable in a super ridiculous niche pick but not near 100% viable and certainly not extremely.

@Shahamut, I wondered that too
I'm right there with you guys.
To be honest, i'd be willing to suffer through this if he wasn't so god awful boring to play. I really can't stand that lame skillshot.


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Elesys

Senior Member

03-27-2014

Don't remember who said it, but pointed out the fact Skarner is a scorpion mixed with crystals. Both are about being hard to destroy and not exactly moving around a lot.

However, Skarner's kit is now all about moving fast and not being that tanky anymore nor locking down a lot like scorpions do. In other words, you got an hyperactive scorpion with crystals making him run faster the longer they're active like propellers (ramp up) and he's not locking you down with his pincers, nor is he as hard to kill as crystal + scorpion would suggest. Then Xelnath said thematically his kit was fitting. Huh??


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Velkoz Reloaded

Senior Member

03-27-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elesys View Post
Don't remember who said it, but pointed out the fact Skarner is a scorpion mixed with crystals. Both are about being hard to destroy and not exactly moving around a lot.

However, Skarner's kit is now all about moving fast and not being that tanky anymore nor locking down a lot like scorpions do. In other words, you got an hyperactive scorpion with crystals making him run faster the longer they're active like propellers (ramp up) and he's not locking you down with his pincers, nor is he as hard to kill as crystal + scorpion would suggest. Then Xelnath said thematically his kit was fitting. Huh??
Some scorpions do chase their prey but they do so by surprising their prey and charging right up to it before crushing it with their claws. I like that Skarner gets to use movespeed but I agree entirely, he doesn't really fit himself. I'd love to see a complete overhaul if it gave us something fun and new.


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Velkoz Reloaded

Senior Member

03-27-2014

BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


But in all seriousness. What is viable? Fizz goes boing! Vayne goes rolley polley! Lee goes dash! Yasuo goes whoosh! Lulu goes Cupcake! Skarner goes! Slow down! I can't catch you! You can walk up to my and kill my laner under turret but I can't stop you!

Edit: Played again after that. We won... but seriously I was raging at the game. I'd go in for a gank, my laner would come, the enemy laner would turn around and kill my laner and then walk away from me. If they had a jump/dash, they'd use that. Even late game when I could slow, they'd still be able to jump/dash/knock back and I couldn't do too much.


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P Chro

Senior Member

03-27-2014

Just that missing Skarner's kind bump.


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Kalarepa

Senior Member

03-28-2014

RiotScruffy's thoughts on this thread:
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...7&d=1390765737


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Mech Lord Yhnmk

Senior Member

03-28-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahamut View Post
Breaking Down the Rework:

What Skarner Lost---------------------------What Skarner Gained

1)spammable slow on Q-----------------------1)Stacking attack speed buff (fairly weak) max 48%

2)50% AS buff on W(tied to shield)----------2)Slight increase to shield strength (50pnts at max, 10%AP)

3)1% base attack Speed----------------------3)Increased MS buff, max 32%, but with 3 second ramp up.

4)Minor Heal on E---------------------------4)Long ranged E with slow, smaller/slower missile.

5)Instant Speed burst, max 24%--------------5)???

Im just trying to figure out the "power budget" because I remember RIOTSCRUFFY saying before that without the "toxic" permaslow, it opens skarner up to buffs in other areas since it gives him some room for power budgeting.

Overall, he moves slower with his W (being tied to shield, the ramp up time isn't actually better till after 2.5 or 3 seconds, in which the enemy usually breaks the shield. So its better for crossing map in the long run, but is worse for initiating and for running.) Looks more like a nerf. A small one, but a nerf none the less.

His attack speed buff is more reliable, but only until your enemy uses an escape and can disengage for 5 seconds. The ammount was lowered by 2%, and because his base AS was reduced 1%, the % buffs work less effectively on him. Overall, its close to about the same, except one thing:
--Attack speed buff is no good vs towers/structures. Gameplay wise (since the game is about taking towers to get to the nexus) This looks like an overall nerf.

The more I play with the new Skarner, the more I like his E. The long range helps a lot. The slow has WAY more applications, even though it is short duration, not only for me, but for my team as well. Overall, this was a buff.

The shield on E was increased by 50pnts at max rank, and the AP ratio raised 10%. Im going to simply compare this to the heal that was lost (since that was what it was meant to cover). I can say without doubt, that late game, the heal was better. In a recent game, there were several face-offs where I was neck in neck with Renekton, after he burst my shield (pretty quickly still) Im without any kind of sustain for at least 12 seconds (auto attacks). Having the slightly smaller shield in conjunction with the heal was better, so in the area of sustain, I would call this a nerf.

Skarner's Ultimate took a substantial (in my opinion) indirect nerf. The ramp up time on the shield SEVERLY limits how far you can pull your opponent. NOTE: in a fight, your shield wont last 3 seconds for you to charge it up and then grab. This combo (R,W, RUN!) was one of the things that made Skarner's ult so much fun for me. The ramp up speed has killed that for me though.

So am I misunderstanding something here? I really think that the new Skarner has potential, but I think he is still missing a lot of previous power. Scruffy's statements prior to the rework, my thoughts here, and multiple rioters admitting to his "under-tuned" current state is what I am going on.

Help please?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech Lord Yhnmk View Post
I agree, Rioters constantly talk about removing "Power" from a champion to add it elsewhere, where did all of Skarners extra power go?

His Passive and R are the same, his Q lost the perma-slow and gained the AS buff, which is worse then his W's AS buff but is "more reliable" so lets just say that's a little bit more power to then justify him losing base AS per level (even tho by this point he has a much more unreliable AS buff then lee sin as you pointed out, and Vi who can get 3 hits off her R,Q and auto not to mention reset her auto with E)

His W gained MS (tho needs a ramp up) tankyness and less CD and lost the AS. But, lets say this is where the rest of his perma slow's power went(besides the E) even though I think .2 scaling doesn't justify the power of the perma slow.

His E gained the slow a longer CD, a harder to hit projectile, and LOST the heal. I think everyone will agree, for jungle skarner at least, the E was not used till late game, BUT at late game it helped mitigate literally thousands of damage! The heal was 90+0.3AP on the first mark consumed and 50% of the last heal on any other marks. So you got about 150 heal (usually a bit more) for hitting two champs in a late game team fight. With the CD low with CDR and AS and you spam using it you could easily get off at least 7 and hit at least two champs per.

So where did this 1050 health go? not in his base stats, not to to the sheild, Q, W or R. Where did you put this power? Was this the power that moved to his W? I think 5250 AP is a little Generous thinking, and if that is the case where did the rest of the perma-slows power go?

Not to mention Skarner was considered weak to start with, and should probably get a little "extra" power
Not sure if it's funny or sad that I can probably continue on this thread by just quoting myself or others from earlier posts...