Skarner Rework Follow Through

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Minishmaster

Senior Member

02-12-2014

I think skarner needs something extra for his sustained fighting. He used to have large amounts hybrid damage, a permaslow, and a good periodic heal, that would all come together to give him huge amounts of power in sustained fights. The attack speed on his Q and the extra health on his shield simply aren't enough to make up for that.

I'd like to see skarner given a small amount of hybrid penetration on his Q stacks like 3 or 4 magic and armor penetration per stack, just to make him a bit more of a threat in longer fights.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Shahamut

Senior Member

02-12-2014

I think someone asked, but yes, they do playtest their champions, but Im pretty sure at this point its vs bots...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Siigari

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-12-2014

This pisses me off so much.

People complain that Skarner can permaslow you. Have those same people ever tried killing a Kassadin? Boy, let's talk about next level unfair biased bull****.

I made a long post about my review on Skarner. Here it is, wrapped up in all of Scruffy's rework goodness.


Originally posted: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4268356


Just had a chance to play him. I played Skarner as an AP bruiser and AD/tank jungler since his release.

Let's take a look at what they've done to him:

Overall, his effective damage is down. Even if he builds IG and Randuins (bad buy imo) he loses about 50% damage projection from his autos, which slow down his CDR on abilities. His Q used to allow him to stick a little better. Now that enemies will be able to easily kite away from him (even with a 2 second slow on a 4-5 second cooldown) it's not strong enough for Skarner to stick reliably to a target.

Overall Damage: Down about 10-15%


Jungle clear is slightly improved due to his attack speed being moved from something that was breakable to something that is going as long as he is attacking. That being said, maxing Q first provides a very fast clear time. But let's face it, who cares about jungle clear time if you can't actually do anything when it comes time to participate? His overall sustain is maybe up a slight bit in the jungle due to killing faster but in team fights I noticed a SIGNIFICANT decrease in his sustain just because his E lost its heal.

Jungle clear: Up 20-30%
Jungle sustain: Up 30%


Overall Skarner is being affected by a bit of an identity crisis. He's a melee attack speed bruiser-style champion with a 1000 unit ranged slow and an ult that he can never effectively position himself to use without flash. So what's Riot telling us here? If we slow them from 1000 units (or a little less) then we close the gap with a paltry movement speed boost, by the time we actually get to the target they're no longer lock-downable because they ran away. Skarner brings zero lockdown from 1000 units because he's a melee champion.

Skarner's W is now a totally useless ability. People used to say E was useless? Well at least E did something beneficial for Skarner before (healing is always a nice thing to have.) Now W brings a crappy speed boost that barely lasts for any amount of time. At least his old W was bam, speed and then you could use it to your advantage to catch people ever-so-slightly out of position.

Lockdown: Gone
Meaningful gap closer: Gone
Heal during fights: Gone

What's worse about Skarner's E is that it used to have a fairly sizeable punch width. Now not only is it NECESSARY to land to start slowing people, but I'm squarely missing hits on targets that used to hit before. It may have been a 'tiny' reduction in width but dude, we need everything we can get here. Not only do people dodge that **** from range but now it is absolutely difficult to hit this from mid-max range.

Skarner's ult was given a much-needed buff. Hell yes, root the target before it can escape and mess up the timings. But why wasn't this just the sole change? Skarner's been Eve'd: the quality of life change he needed to become ever-so-slightly more viable (think of all the games that would have been won if that ult actually landed) was made but then he was absolutely torn apart from every other angle to make the buff useless where it should have placed him squarely ahead of where he was.

Skarner's teamfight sustain is completely gone because his heal which used to proc every 2-3 seconds has been removed. Think about that -- every 2-3 seconds in a fight you'd pop a small heal. Was it very small? Yeah, it was small. But are you going to refuse a heal if you get one? Over the course of a teamfight I have probably healed thousands of HP from that small pip every 2-3 seconds. Removing it means Skarner is a one-shot wonder -- he either flash/ults and everyone dumps on the target or that's it. No more big 5v5s where a shield to cover for a heal is going to help any longer.

Poor Skarner.


TL;DR: All of Skarner's secondary abilities shifted around and one ability was lost: his heal.

Q: Attack speed (was on W)
W: Movement speed (lost attack speed)
E: Slow (was on Q) and lost heal
R: Got a needed buff.

What this used to be:

Q: Slow
W: Movement speed and attack speed
E: Heal
R: Crappy ult


Slow is no longer lockdown, attack speed no longer instant gain.

My suggestions to fix Skarner and keep his original identity along with fixing him:

Q: Slow as before
W: Flat movement speed buff as before (not "ramping up")
E: Landing on a target increase immediately heals Skarner and increases Skarner's attack speed against marked targets until he changes to a non-marked target (think Windrunner ult)
R: Leave as is


Thanks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Grunt666

Senior Member

02-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey guys,

We're really excited that the Skarner rework is now live, and we are playing him a ton on live, reading all of the forum feedback, and even watching a few Skarner streams. We are very passionate about him and we want him to be both a very healthy and fun champion for the game and a viable and balanced character.

These changes in 4.2 were targeted at improving his gameplay to accomplish a few goals:

-Enable more ability for Skarner and his opponents to display their skill
-Reduce the amount of feast/famine that Skarner can experience (when he's ahead he is unstoppable, when he's behind he has a hard time contributing at all)
-Create more defined windows of power for Skarner to create more interaction between him and his opponent

We think that the changes have accomplished these goals and we always try to release character in as balanced of a state as we can, but it is always a possibility that he is not balanced. The important thing here is that we are actively monitoring and planning on a follow up in the next patch for Skarner to make sure that he is balanced and viable.

Thanks again for all of your feedback, and we are always actively working to improve the game (and in this case Skarner). I'll come back to this thread to answer questions if you have any.

-Scruffy

I get that you no longer wanted his Q to perma slow, and you are unlikely to really change much else with skarner's kit at this point.

I have played alot of skarner and this is my feedback.

q) needs more dmg period. The dmg it does is fairly poor, I know it has a short CD, but it really has terrible dmg output.

w) A nice ability I think it is fine.

e) very poor ability needs some sort of reasonable base dmg or scaling with a mana cost. I really think the heal should be added back to it. It was a small heal but right now skarner just has to chug too many pots in his early clears.

r) Is fine I like it now.


Overall, please PLEASe do something about his mana costs. I simply an unable to clear jungles and have mana without the blue buff which has to goto my mid or they QQ.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tortferngatr

Senior Member

02-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunt666 View Post
I get that you no longer wanted his Q to perma slow, and you are unlikely to really change much else with skarner's kit at this point.

I have played alot of skarner and this is my feedback.

q) needs more dmg period. The dmg it does is fairly poor, I know it has a short CD, but it really has terrible dmg output.

w) A nice ability I think it is fine.

e) very poor ability needs some sort of reasonable base dmg or scaling with a mana cost. I really think the heal should be added back to it. It was a small heal but right now skarner just has to chug too many pots in his early clears.

r) Is fine I like it now.


Overall, please PLEASe do something about his mana costs. I simply an unable to clear jungles and have mana without the blue buff which has to goto my mid or they QQ.
even WITH Spirit Stone?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mestergrog

Senior Member

02-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siigari View Post
But let's face it, who cares about jungle clear time if you can't actually do anything when it comes time to participate?
Skarner's clear and dueling are still good (although he can no longer permaslow to stick to his target if they try to escape the duel, his damage in a 1v1 means nobody wants to fight him).
So if he clears waves well and requires the enemy team to send 2 players to get him, that would, by definition, make Skarner a split pusher. His speed boost on W and self-peel on E also make him harder to catch.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Siigari

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Something that seems worth clarifying is that with the rework we wanted to introduce some windows where Skarner's opponent has the opportunity to escape, but we also have increased the power and versatility of Skarner's CC when he does use it. Skarner has a stronger slow that he can apply at range without having to build up on a target, when used correctly this can be a very powerful tool (especially when setting up for an ult in a team fight).

Further increasing the CC/Power spike when Skarner makes his play is probably the area that we would buff him in if we saw that he was undertuned.
You gave them PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES TO ESCAPE -- by taking away PERMANENT SLOW.

Listen to this, this is the order of things.

Skarner permaslows everyone
RiotScruffy says "we want to give people the opportunity to escape from Skarner"
RiotScruffy reworks Skarner so he can no longer permaslow
The previously mentioned issue is now irrelevant because it's not possible to need to "escape" from Skarner.


Look man, your rework is a total farce. Not only does it remove every shred of what makes him unique but it left him lifeless, doing absolutely nothing better than any other champion. And I'm just going to say it: If people can't get away from Skarner then the other team sucks at knocking Skarner off their ally.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jew Lee Oh

Senior Member

02-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mestergrog View Post
Skarner's clear and dueling are still good (although he can no longer permaslow to stick to his target if they try to escape the duel, his damage in a 1v1 means nobody wants to fight him).
So if he clears waves well and requires the enemy team to send 2 players to get him, that would, by definition, make Skarner a split pusher. His speed boost on W and self-peel on E also make him harder to catch.
His clear is not good you are high on drugs or low on elo. His dueling is pretty bad too, I don't know who you've been dueling.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cuje

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-12-2014

I think his e needs a heal that procs off minions(to bring back lane skarner) and maybe x2 vs champs. Also removed cast time, and also lower mana cost on w(40).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Foztog

Senior Member

02-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siigari View Post
You gave them PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES TO ESCAPE -- by taking away PERMANENT SLOW.

Listen to this, this is the order of things.

Skarner permaslows everyone
RiotScruffy says "we want to give people the opportunity to escape from Skarner"
RiotScruffy reworks Skarner so he can no longer permaslow
The previously mentioned issue is now irrelevant because it's not possible to need to "escape" from Skarner.


Look man, your rework is a total farce. Not only does it remove every shred of what makes him unique but it left him lifeless, doing absolutely nothing better than any other champion. And I'm just going to say it: If people can't get away from Skarner then the other team sucks at knocking Skarner off their ally.
Well said.