Morello I'm going to give you a proposition that you can not refute.

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Tysheth

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yes - Xyph has been working on this, but we've had issues getting some of the technical pieces in place. Our bad on that, but we think (while not super critical), this violates core principles on this stuff and we want to address.
How hard can it possibly be to disable Teemo and delete him in the next patch?

Delete Teemo 2014

edit: I've been the leader of Clan Always Ban Teemo since long before Oracle's Elixir was removed. If you'd like to join Clan ABT, the application process is simple: Every time you're team captain, ban Teemo. If you always ban Teemo, you're an honorary member of our clan. We don't have a forum or a ventrilo channel; we don't scrimmage with each other; we don't play games with each other; we don't know each other's names; and we don't talk to each other.
Join now!


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hashinshin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maulkrieg View Post
For anyone wondering, "Tots magots" sounds like "Totes Magoats."

Something that's more sensible better in speech than text.
tots magots it is.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theras Arkna View Post
You know, I may not have always agreed with you, but I could at least respect your opinion. But implying that Shyvana's kit is inherently broken makes me think of you as a talentless hack.

Nerf the base damage on shyvana's burnout and change the damage dealt to physical damage. There, I just saved you the effort of a full kit rework.
There is actually a small problem on late game shyvana that Riot created with the buffs.
Shyvana had problems with her CD on R in the late game. It did not really go donw. Now Riot thought that increasing the passive fury gain would help there. But they did not really see the actual problem:
Shyvana creates no fury when she is dead. So her ult CD freezes for around 70 seconds when she dies late game, and that still happens. But if she doesn't die now, her CD is ready nearly all the time. She generates fury and can use the ult to escape and have it ready again in a fight 30 sec later without any CDR (CDR doesn't work on it).
Also the duration of the dragon form hot buffed. And now a shyvana can actually stay longer in dragon form than in her normal form. That boosts her passive and all other skills, amking her super strong in the late game. She can pop her ult at the beginning of the fight and if she survives the fight, she will still be in Dragon form.

But that is not the only problem with Shyvana. Only one of the most obvious. Tons of power in her R alone. The passive, Q, W and E are all getting 20-50% strength from her R. It is like K'Z would evolve all his skills for 30 sec with a 60 sec CD on top of his normal kit.


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TheFirstOne

Senior Member

01-30-2014

a large majority of my games are decided bot lane before teamfights even start. 2 - 3 kills on the adc bot lane and game over. I always have ways more fun when the 2 item enemy adc doesnt ruin the game for the rest of us, and dont get me started on late game when everyone is just meat shields and the game is adc vs adc. NO FUN


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Musche

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
You're speaking to a rotating wall of hard counters, which is actually very unhealthy. Jinx and Lucian are overtuned ADCs that lack clear weaknesses and overshadow characters who have them.

All good fighters' weaknesses are "some other fighter." I think Mundo is VERY salvagable with balance updates to give him play (he's just old), but Shyvana....
lucian's weakness is..?
ad steriod passive (that procs on hits twice btw)
an escape (that removes slows btw)
wave clear (that can be used as poke)
another wave clear (also poke) that gives movement speed
long range poke/dps/execute/waveclear


wheres the weakness? atk speed? oh that passive tho. scalings? oh the passive.
seriously. where is the fucking weakness


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NotanNSAplant

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
There is actually a small problem on late game shyvana that Riot created with the buffs.
Shyvana had problems with her CD on R in the late game. It did not really go donw. Now Riot thought that increasing the passive fury gain would help there. But they did not really see the actual problem:
Shyvana creates no fury when she is dead. So her ult CD freezes for around 70 seconds when she dies late game, and that still happens. But if she doesn't die now, her CD is ready nearly all the time. She generates fury and can use the ult to escape and have it ready again in a fight 30 sec later without any CDR (CDR doesn't work on it).
Also the duration of the dragon form hot buffed. And now a shyvana can actually stay longer in dragon form than in her normal form. That boosts her passive and all other skills, amking her super strong in the late game. She can pop her ult at the beginning of the fight and if she survives the fight, she will still be in Dragon form.

But that is not the only problem with Shyvana. Only one of the most obvious. Tons of power in her R alone. The passive, Q, W and E are all getting 20-50% strength from her R. It is like K'Z would evolve all his skills for 30 sec with a 60 sec CD on top of his normal kit.

Her ult is good, but it really isn't the problem. It's the burnout trail racking up obscene amounts of damage. Seriously, look at the death recaps.


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Maulkrieg

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Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
tots magots it is.
Oh shiiiiii-

My typo was pretty damn bad.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookboots View Post
lucian's weakness is..?
ad steriod passive (that procs on hits twice btw)
an escape (that removes slows btw)
wave clear (that can be used as poke)
another wave clear (also poke) that gives movement speed
long range poke/dps/execute/waveclear


wheres the weakness? atk speed? oh that passive tho. scalings? oh the passive.
seriously. where is the fucking weakness
Lucians main problem currently is range. R is easily avoided especially at high range, Q needs a close target. That's why Cait is so good against him early game (and you can also play Ashe). Varus works, too.
His W is no waves clear. The dmg is too low for that.
Everything else is correct.

Lucian is too strong. I don't want to deny that. I only wanted to fix the list a bit.


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Musche

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
Lucians main problem currently is range. R is easily avoided especially at high range, Q needs a close target. That's why Cait is so good against him early game (and you can also play Ashe). Varus works, too.
His W is no waves clear. The dmg is too low for that.
Everything else is correct.

Lucian is too strong. I don't want to deny that. I only wanted to fix the list a bit.
his ult is probably the 2nd best adc ult in the game bc of how it can be used.
skilled/practiced lucian can harass with q
is still aoe dmg that gives him a buff which compensates for low damage.

range is short? every time they hit you once u use a skill and hit them twice. e doesnt even have a cost


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Xyltin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theras Arkna View Post
Her ult is good, but it really isn't the problem. It's the burnout trail racking up obscene amounts of damage. Seriously, look at the death recaps.
That is one part of the ult.
And don't forget how many def stats she gets when she is in her dragon form (passive goe up from 20 to 40 Armor and MR).
The ult also has a pretty good base dmg (not great but good for an AOE spell).

Do you know flame breath? The skill that is a skillshot? It is now an AOE skill that hits nearly the entire enemy team. And do you also know that everybody can trigger the 2% max HP proc with an AA? That is a huge amount of bonus DMG her team deals.
Lets say everybod yof your team attacks once per second (5 sec duration). That makes 25 attacks or 50% of one persons max HP from one simple E skill. And it doesn't matter which target you hit, cause it hits nearly all.
That is one part a lot of people don't know.
Now combine that wiht the Q cleave dmg in dragon form.

Her Dragon form skills give too much synergy to her own kit, too much survivability and too much extra dmg for her team while it also has that good base dmg, gap closer, knockback and has around 30+ sec duration with only around 30 sec CD.

To give only numbers. Normal Shyvana casts the E onto a tank with 3500 HP and does one AA + Q combo. Now the ADC with a 2.0 AS shoots at teh target 10 times. That makes 13 attacks or 26% of its max HP.
That E bonus dmg dealt 910 raw dmg + 200 from the initial E dmg
=> 1110 dmg from one E with only 2 persons and Shyvana not even perma attacking.

I wouldn't be surprised if some important people in the balancing team don't know that her E can get triggered by other players, MINIONS and pets. I don't know if neutral monsters can also trigger it.
Don't fight her in her minions, cause the minions will all deal 2% of your max HP per AA.