Morello I'm going to give you a proposition that you can not refute.

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BattleBootyRiven

Senior Member

01-30-2014

I just wanna say hi to Morello. I hope you and ghost crawler can get along well its gonna be interesting to see what you guys do and bring to the future of league


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Two possible attributions to that statement:

1) This is the weakest ADC's have been and they still have dictation over fights. The delta between Season 1 Corki and today is big - even Jinx is a shadow of yesterday's marskmen. The delta for long-time players can feel less explosive.

2) Marksmen have a weakness, and many top picks (Shyvana, Mundo, Gragas, Kassadin, Thresh) are safe, reliable and powerful. Being the one guy with an Achilles heel feels pretty bad, even if the problem is too few people have one.
Morello, I believe you may need to do what you've previously implied:

Nerf everything.

Marksmen maintain their integral strategic requirement because they still do things other classes usually can't do. Safer farming, laning harass, objective taking, teamfight cleaning, etc.

Consider that with AD runes and the like, a level 1 autoattack from Caitlyn is perhaps doing more damage than most spells.

The time to kill in lane is way too low, especially versus resource cost to do it.

So consider Dota: Turrets do very little damage, but there's lots of easy sustain.

This leads to more fights which dive the turret.


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IllusoryLumines

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
Not to mention that ADCs have NEVER not been the #1 class
Now you're just making things up or having huge-ass confirmation bias.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
"less bad" is still... less bad.

ADCs are the worst right now. The game revolves around them yet they are a very boring class that never feels satisfying to play. How does that make for a good game?

And what's wrong with a rotating wall of hard counters? Better than rotating spreadsheet of who has the most Damage*survivability while auto attacking from range.
I think that ADCs like Lucian or Ez are not that bad designed. Not in terms of their strengths and weaknesses, but that they are not pue AA champs. They have farely low CDs and are forced to spam their skills to max their DPS.
Varus is also very similar.
MF does also work wiht her Q and R (especially the possible PBE changes look promising).

I think it is very good to design ADCs around using their skills to deal real dmg.

Cait has no problem late game sitting around and only using AA, while she uses her W and E (longer CDs) when she is in danger. She doesn't feel like a sniper with long range and cool skills, but like a normal pera AA champ with a bit more range. Her passive even forces her to use more AA instead of using her skills.

Why can't cait stack her passive up when she hits her Q and R? R gives her passive full stacks.
Q gives 2 stacks per target hit.
E gives 2 stacks if she hits a target.
This is only an idea for a direction and would definitely need more changes to her, but you get teh direction. Encourage ADCs to sue skills and play with them instead of being pure AA monsters.

Ashe is a bit in a niche between these 2 cases. She uses the Q, btu you don't really use it. W gets normally used on CD in between AA, but the animation is a bit too long late game (maybe reduce the animation time with higher AS).
E does nothing in that term.
R is needed and cool. Lets her feel a bit less like an AA champ, bt it is the long CD ult.

Trist tries to jump around, but she actually only uses AA.

Vayne. Q is interresting but only an AA steroid. W is passive. R is again an AA steroid.
In the and Q and E are ok, W is boring as hell.

Kog. Pure AA champ. the changes to Q seemed nice, but still same playstyle. W + AA all day long.


People call them ADCs or marksmen, but most of them are AA bots with some utility or steroid skills in between to use now and then.
Lucian, MF (with possible PBE changes), Varus, Ez and to some part even Graves feel more like champs that AA a lot, but use their skills to be really powerful.
Jinx can actually fight late game with only using Q and R and she would still do her job.
Cait can AA only after 25 minutes and she would still do her job.
They would not be as safe or would have less CC, but they would do the important thing: Destroy turrets and shred enemies.

Think about a Lucian that doesn't use his Q and passive once? His dmg would be meh.
Varus without popping his W once, or sniping people with his Q? OMG.


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Mr Fuzzy Nugget

Senior Member

01-30-2014

@Morello,


Is there anything in the works about skill collisions being tweaked? Sometimes it may appear a skill never touch you but still does. Or are the Champions' collision boxes larger than the Champions themselves?


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Theras Arkna

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Two possible attributions to that statement:

1) This is the weakest ADC's have been and they still have dictation over fights. The delta between Season 1 Corki and today is big - even Jinx is a shadow of yesterday's marskmen. The delta for long-time players can feel less explosive.

2) Marksmen have a weakness, and many top picks (Shyvana, Mundo, Gragas, Kassadin, Thresh) are safe, reliable and powerful. Being the one guy with an Achilles heel feels pretty bad, even if the problem is too few people have one.

You know, I may not have always agreed with you, but I could at least respect your opinion. But implying that Shyvana's kit is inherently broken makes me think of you as a talentless hack.

Nerf the base damage on shyvana's burnout and change the damage dealt to physical damage. There, I just saved you the effort of a full kit rework.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

@morello: You should email me your skype. I promise to be totally professional. Tots magots.

On topic: Why not more melee carries like Jax and less ... lets call them tidal wave champions like Shyvana?

Tidal wave champions are fun for the user, not fun for the usee.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
@morello: You should email me your skype. I promise to be totally professional. Tots magots.

On topic: Why not more melee carries like Jax and less ... lets call them tidal wave champions like Shyvana?

Tidal wave champions are fun for the user, not fun for the usee.
Pls no second Jax. If he late game would be weaker and his early game a bit stronger and he would have more weaknesses, maybe. But not THE Jax.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
Pls no second Jax. If he late game would be weaker and his early game a bit stronger and he would have more weaknesses, maybe. But not THE Jax.
tanky assassins are fun.


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Maulkrieg

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Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
@morello: You should email me your skype. I promise to be totally professional. Tots magots.

On topic: Why not more melee carries like Jax and less ... lets call them tidal wave champions like Shyvana?

Tidal wave champions are fun for the user, not fun for the usee.
For anyone wondering, "Tots magots" sounds like "Totes Magoats."

Something that's more sensible better in speech than text.