Why isn't Janna allowed to have any meaningful rewards for charging Q?

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Uiraya

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Sometimes I think the best possible thing that could happen to the state of this game is if we stop trying to make mages and supports different things. Or, at the very least, take the anchors off the supports. "Oh no they might make a meaningful impact" has been holding supports down since the beginning and it needs to go away.
~Uiru


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SilvertonguedDvl

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Senior Member

01-30-2014

I agree. A bit too much effort is put into ensuring champions are forced into certain roles rather than allowing them to find their own roles/uses based on kits that are engaging and fun to play. Let the metagame do its own thing; focus on making fun champions and weird/entertaining kits rather than making "junglers" and "supports" and "marksmen."


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-30-2014
2 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonCannonKarthus View Post
Maybe having a fully charged Tornado's damage rivaling the power of an AP Mage is a good thing?
As long as it sucks against minions so that it doesn't turn into guaranteed wave-clear. "Why should I pick Janna" should be supported by this reward structure (maybe pressure damage could be one.)


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ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

01-30-2014

^

Maybe let the ramping damage do reduced damage to minions, then?


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Bregan

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Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Agreed - this should be a strong reward and isn't. I don't like variable CC due to how tightly CC duration prediction is connected to intuitive feel, and damage can get us into mage territory, but those are only two of several (and many possible) ideas. Good call generally.
mage territory? i miss being able to actually hurt the enemy as janna in aram. now its a joke. sona tends to do more damage.


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Sophitia

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Agreed - this should be a strong reward and isn't. I don't like variable CC due to how tightly CC duration prediction is connected to intuitive feel, and damage can get us into mage territory, but those are only two of several (and many possible) ideas. Good call generally.
To be honest, I dont think mage janna is a problem at all. Especially with the continuous nerfs to her Zephyr, the AP ratio nerf on shield durability and the HUGE nerfs to Q. The fact Janna even has to charge Q so long and it moves so slowly means that if you're getting hit by an AP janna Q, you probably aren't playing optimally or she straight up outplayed you hard by forcing you to run a certain direction.

I personally think that Q needs to do as much damage at FULL charge as it used to do before the season 4 nerf slew that she got :/ You can leave it so it does less in instant cast, but that ability just got nerfed way harder than it should have, both in AP ratio and base damage.

Janna's kit overall feels incredibly weak right now, because she needs a giant amount of AP for her shield buff to really even be noticeable to her ADC. Not to mention you guys gutted her passive range.


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-30-2014
3 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uiraya View Post
Sometimes I think the best possible thing that could happen to the state of this game is if we stop trying to make mages and supports different things. Or, at the very least, take the anchors off the supports. "Oh no they might make a meaningful impact" has been holding supports down since the beginning and it needs to go away.
~Uiru
I'd say this; if you want a character to be a support, and its job and CORE fantasy is to support, you have to make tradeoffs to make that true. If a champion is definied by helping other players on their team directly, then I think it's more important to ensure it does an awesome job of that.

The quantity of decisions that get made is less important, in League, than the quality of the decisions. If Janna, say, can do fair job of supporting, but is completely uninteractive in mid (due to her kit being made with the idea that it will set up the pins for a friend), then it drains away the possibility of gameplay (remember sit back, wave clear, never interact AP Janna mid?) to allow a choice of where you want to play her. She gets nerfed, then support Janna gets weakened. Now you mess Janna's whole jam up.

Or, you could focus on making sure she has high-quality decisions that are impactful - a direction I think is better. If you don't want to help other people, I think you should simply not play a core support (Janna, Soraka, Lulu, Nami, Taric, Sona) and play a different character.

I think this meta conversation, though, comes from one core player desire: a way to personalize and express "style" in the way you play and choices you make. This I agree lacks and want to fix, but I think "anytime anywhere" from a role perspective cheapens in-game choices in favor or predetermined champ select choices. There's other ways to skin this that we're talking about - some things like item builds and pregame setup, though that stuff's aways off.


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-30-2014
4 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfDrDeath View Post
^

Maybe let the ramping damage do reduced damage to minions, then?
Yeah - def solvable. Just something I wanted to mention that's a thing for us to remember.

Damage can be a reward here if Janna's value is "good poke damage with her CC if she telegraphs," which isn't unreasonable.


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OMG halp meh plz

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Agreed - this should be a strong reward and isn't. I don't like variable CC due to how tightly CC duration prediction is connected to intuitive feel, and damage can get us into mage territory, but those are only two of several (and many possible) ideas. Good call generally.
Considering it takes effort to actually get hit by a charged tornado, why would increased knockup duration be a bad thing in this case?


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-30-2014
5 of 6 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG halp meh plz View Post
Considering it takes effort to actually get hit by a charged tornado, why would increased knockup duration be a bad thing in this case?
Power-wise, I think it's fine, but I'm very hesistant to variable-length CC (the durations being standard per-skill makes timing games surrounding it intuitive). That being said, if there was ever a skill to consider it on, this is one of the better ones.


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