Why isn't Janna allowed to have any meaningful rewards for charging Q?

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MasterofSFL

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallows Evelynn View Post
the proble you and everyone else at riot has is that you think "supports" should be weak and helpless individuals not being able to take care of themselves past the babby sitting bot lane phase....

this is why i actually love annie botlane. she is actually a THREAT and not just a babby sitter. she can get fed and take care of herself unlike janna or soraka who would get fed and screw over there team because they have all the kills.

If supports weren't weak by themselves, than you'd have Mages with an extreme amount of utility.

That's not ok.

Supports should be most effective when they support, which means in most cases they are not going to win any 1v1s. The whole point of being a support is to protect and to enhance your teammates, so why would a support need to be able to nuke down someone as well?


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

01-31-2014

It already 1-shots minion waves at full charge, and is the best kite/peel available at partial by being unaffected by tenacity and QSS. Janna is the definition of an effective support. She plays an active role in helping her allies with anything they might need to do, even if it's holding off the enemy while they respawn. Janna under a tower can solo defend it for days. She doesn't need to be murdering champions, her utility is unparalleled.


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kholdstare13 View Post
Janna under a tower can solo defend it for days.
This is rather exaggerated as at best, a Janna with 1000 AP can hold off maybe 3-4 attacks with her shield and maybe another round if she blows her ultimate. She might delay in a 1v5 situation for a few seconds, but I wouldn't really equate that to "days".


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Tulare

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofSFL View Post
If supports weren't weak by themselves, than you'd have Mages with an extreme amount of utility.

That's not ok.

Supports should be most effective when they support, which means in most cases they are not going to win any 1v1s. The whole point of being a support is to protect and to enhance your teammates, so why would a support need to be able to nuke down someone as well?
The problem with them being weak by themselves is that they're also, consequently, weak when trying to protect and enhance teammates. Janna's shield and tornado are "supposed to" make her marksman partner the equal of what the other team brings to the lane. When the other team brings makes it a kill lane, that's not happening. Kill lanes were a thing in season 3 but the team using one was gambling. If the "traditional" team's jungler made some good plays or the kill lane duo made a mistake and gave a kill to the traditional team's marksman, then the traditional team would have the better fed marksman going into the mid game while the kill lane team would have a very under-itemized mage. With the season 4 changes permitting the character in the support role to itemize, we're finding that traditional supports can't bring enough to counter the kill lane and the risk to the kill lane team is negligible.

When playing Janna and Sona, I don't necessarily want nukes. I want them to have tools comparable to the other team's tools, though. Right now, that's just not the case. The nukes have proven more valuable than the scalable utility. So either the utility needs to get better (possible), the mages' nukes need to get worse (not likely) or the traditional supports need to get some nukes of their own.


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Aeolian Melodies

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
The quantity of decisions that get made is less important, in League, than the quality of the decisions. If Janna, say, can do fair job of supporting, but is completely uninteractive in mid (due to her kit being made with the idea that it will set up the pins for a friend), then it drains away the possibility of gameplay (remember sit back, wave clear, never interact AP Janna mid?) to allow a choice of where you want.
Morgana
Lux
Gragas
Brand
Karthus
Karma
Xerath
Zed
Orianna
Malzahar
Hell, Mordekaiser
Galio
Heimer (pre and post rework)
Anivia

You're right Morello, AP Janna was the only mid who could sit back and AoE farm every wave. Better delete her entirely.


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TheOddBoy

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Riot please post on this, someone in the first page is gonna eat his bunny


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian Melodies View Post

You're right Morello, AP Janna was the only mid who could sit back and AoE farm every wave. Better delete her entirely.
Think the thing is that the champions you listed do have incentives for harassing the opponent and with the exception of maybe Morgana, can actually bother to harass on a regular basis.

Janna's quite literally fire and forget with her farming, but since it's pretty much 60% of your damage output and due to the charge time, you're never going to count on hitting the enemy champion and the minion wave. You don't interact with her because the nature of her kit pretty much disallows interaction with other champions.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

02-01-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soiyeruda View Post
This is rather exaggerated as at best, a Janna with 1000 AP can hold off maybe 3-4 attacks with her shield and maybe another round if she blows her ultimate. She might delay in a 1v5 situation for a few seconds, but I wouldn't really equate that to "days".
1v5 doesn't really work for anyone, especially once they have a tank who can not care about being slammed by the tower while it gets demolished. Earlier on, however, and against 2 or 3 people squishy or low enough on health that taking shots is a bad idea, she does amazingly. Full wave clears on Q with threatening CC if they try to dive, tons of movespeed that can become a crippling slow to hold the first person to dive under the tower's aggro, and the ability to shield the tower and give it more AD to really punish. Defending 1v2 for Janna is simple, and even if she retreats after a failed teamfight to hold off 1v3, if the enemy is weakened enough she can do a great job at it.