@Morello You used to work on Guild wars; why not make Soraka a Protection Monk?

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Chocmerc

Senior Member

01-30-2014

I think we need a guild wars style bonder in the champion roster ;D That was a great amount of fun to play, having to manage your mana, bonds, and stay alive


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PortageLakes

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjin View Post
On top of this, Soraka is a low interaction champion, you heal when needed, and you banana when possible but you can rarely focus on using Starcall since it both pushes the lane and puts you in a dangerous position.

banana when possible? wth does that mean?


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HuFOHr9aGj

Senior Member

01-30-2014

banana bump


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ObscureClockwork

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Looking at this ability (new W heal)

Quote:
W: Astral Blessing, Reworked

Now heals for a small amount, costs %health, and places a buff on target ally for 1.5 seconds.

Active: Soraka blesses a friendly unit, restoring a small amount of health and granting them Blessing for 1.5 seconds.

Blessing: If target ally would take damage from an enemy champon, the damage is negated and they are healed for a large amount, and the health cost of this spell is refunded. (ability effects still occur as normal)
(Suggested, damage reduction reduced)

Reasoning: Soraka's heal in it's current state can never be good otherwise it warps the lane and generally makes the game slower and less interesting. There are no outplays when it comes to it. Either you heal more than they damage you, or you don't and you die. Yes it grants an armor buff, however; that's just adding stats and invisible power and is useless vs AP damage. Changing the ability into one that grants a large heal when timed properly, similar to a Sivir shield, and allowing strong Soraka's to outplay people, especially when it comes to turning a fight.
Looking at this, i feel it actually has a lot of potential to feel really really bad. Its the same feeling when yasuo wind-walls your jinx ult or ez ult, or when fizz troll-poles over your syndra ult. It is very frustrating when your actions feel like they have absolutely no effect.

In the case of this, it isn't like a spell shield, in that it (to my knowledge) takes in all damage for 1.5 seconds. If it is like a spell shield, skip the next portion, and add "After which, Blessing is removed".

Considering people are already frustrated by fizz poles and vlad pools, this style of RoF would be very very frustrating to play against. "Oh, i just used my annie combo on him, but because i bursted too quickly/soraka had quick fingers, i wasted EVERYTHING to do nothing". and while spell effects would still apply, all damage is negated. Yes, this does have play potential for soraka, but at the same time, it would feel very bad for the other end. This is mainly because it is both a heal, a damage negate, and a larger heal after it.

Perhaps what could be done is this. It blocks an ability, and the cooldown is reduced. The person with blessing gets a heal. This allows the cooldown to be mediocre to high, but allow proper use to be rewarding as it helps sustain a team. Either that, or that perhaps damage or blocking a damage move properly would give the champion a buff? perhaps a damage buff or defensive buff?


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Trai Harder

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by theoryyy View Post
Finally someone pointing out the amazingness of Prot monks (from a design standpoint). Morello, what about infuse? (the GW skill) as a ult? It was the definition of clutch-proactive-heal and high risk/high reward.

For those who don't know:

Infuse Health: Spell. Heals for 100...129...136% of half your current Health. Lose half your current Health. Cannot self-target.

This was used to prevent what we called in PvP "Spikes".

Basically, the whole enemy team (8 people) would call a priority target to be taken down. The shot caller would sometimes do a 3,2,1 on Skype/vent/TS, and people would combo this target to death.

You had to have amazing reflexes sometimes to infuse the right target, and some teams would trick you into "fake" spiking a target for you to lose half your health by infusing, then either kill you or an other target.
I just think this is so stupid You guys are not thinking this thru. Soraka base stats don't give her much Health in the first place but now u want to make her into a healing Vladimir -_- Soraka is a aggressive support that can help releave tons of dmg an or use her allies as bait to draw in an kill people but u want her heals to take her own health are u crazy. That would require an entre rework on her character which is not whats needed here.


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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It's hard to do without removing a lot of agency - "Kill the healer" play could do this, but it tends to not leave a lot of room for additional play (isn't this both the boon and problem with ADC?)

I do feel supports should support, as in need someone else to be at their most effective. That could use to be more impactful than currently later in the game, I think.
The real trouble is the AD carry becomes the focus of EVERYTHING in team fights past a certain point and out scales the support after only a few levels. Supports are also DESIGNED to be paired with the AD carry for the most part. I have never seen a meta where Swain goes bot with Soraka for example even though that works VERY well after level 6. Perhaps we should focus on Why the support is always paired with the ADC early on. Smoothing out the ADC's power curve to be stronger early but grow more slowly could help supports have LANE flexibility and go where the team comp demands instead of being pasted to the carry from early to mid game.

Be it that it may supports could be a lot more powerful and such a power enhancement would actually have more positive effects then negative effects. People were actually taking Taric top lane before his nerfs and he Roamed more stabilizing lane after lane. Why did we not buff other supports up to Taric's level.... simple we still think of the support as an ADC accessory and little else. This could change. This should change for the good of the game as a whole.


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HuFOHr9aGj

Senior Member

01-31-2014

my proposed earlier changes to W is that it takes part of soraka's armor away instead and gives it to the target ally (this alongside with base armor and per level being upped on her) and W becoming a low cooldown shield while also being able to heal every 20s cd.

this would make soraka squishier while her partner is being protected, allowing players to change targets. (if cast on herself she gets tankier and lose no armor)
this would get rid of being tied only to high cooldowns while not increasing or diminishing her sustain, instead it gives her ways of needing less healing due to damage prevention of the small shield.

this would make her more active while retaining the core aspects of soraka as a healer, without having to leave her in a state of either healing being too weak or too strong that would end up being frustrating.
srls, go to page 2 of this thread.

BUMP.


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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I've actually fiddled with this idea a bit - Protection Monk, imo, is one of the most interesting-to-play style healers I've seen, and I used to play it quite a bit in GW1. I like the core idea, but it has some caveats I think it'd need to be successful in LoL.

RoF is the style of spell that can work if you design it around perfect use - IE, a good Soraka would hit it reactively or in chaotic teamfights perfectly - that's a result you can expect out of pretty good players becuase "damage incoming" is a common trigger that will usually activate in most situations. This fact is why Prot/Boon was so strong - RoF is a highly reliable heal due to the ease of the condition that fires the heal.

To me, then, it means that you have to modify the paradigm on that a little, especially since plays like wanding the shield off first aren't actions you can take in League (the interactive portion of the skill). Examples;

* A "cook" (small delay after cast before the shield activates) time that disallows perfect reactive use but favors proactive use; puts a bit of a Sophie's Choice in the enemy's hand of what to do about the incoming RoF.

* An incredibly long cooldown that makes proper use of getting the most out of the shield important (boring, but would work).

* A short duration, and blocks either a spell or auto, but not both. Still would be reactive, but some interactive timing play would exist.

* Heals for X% of damage blocked on the attack, allowing some "wanding" style play to return.

Its just a few ideas, but with some changes it's a possible direction. It also depends on how you weight the block and the heal numerically.

Good post, I like your reasoning sections after each change. Meddler, Scruffy and I are talking about Soraka this week - along with an updated stack-ranking of rework/relaunch prioritization. Yay organization!
The real trouble with Soraka is her Q skill Starcall is not engaging at all and the CDR enhancement added did not really help at all. Most people just level infuse and blessing and pop their ultimate when the ADC is in trouble. Because the heals have been nerfed so much this season Soraka basically gets paired with supports with really strong poke or all in skills that are very mana hungry as a penalty for that power. Infuse is the only thing holding Soraka at or near a 50% win rate.

First lets remove the AR/MR shred from Starcall and turn it into a skill shot or even a prot monk style skill. Starcall has little that makes it engaging or even mildly useful unless you build very tanky.

Infuse and even blessing might be ok if starcall were completely reworked to be a fun narrow skill shot that could output real damage and not some sort of invisible armor shred. People Level all of Alistar's skills because none of them has invisible power and their are good arguments to level each one first (though the AOE stun tends to be relegated to one skill point but is still light years more fun and functional then Soraka's Q)


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HuFOHr9aGj

Senior Member

01-31-2014

^ right now starcall is the best part of soraka's kit dude.
wtf are you on.


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KirbyCake

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by redz View Post
^ right now starcall is the best part of soraka's kit dude.
wtf are you on.
this, soraka's e is useless now and her w is weak, her q is literally one of the strongest abilities in the game which keeps her at a 48-49% win rate

if anything, her w and e should be changed