@Morello You used to work on Guild wars; why not make Soraka a Protection Monk?

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Noobie Swipe

Senior Member

01-30-2014

do NOT touch my banana !!!!!

NO !!!!!


SHE IS MORE THAN FINE !!!!!


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Noobie Swipe

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Soraka at the current state is very good.
i play her a lot on this account.

She can top
She can mid
She can support
She can even Jungle !!!!


SHE IS FINE ! DONT TOUCH HER PLZ~!


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CragBlade

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Well the determiner I've recommended for examining support abilities is "How many thanks does it get from teammates?"

Shen Ult gets a ton of thanks from teammates.

Janna shield (and similar) tends to get negative thanks. ("Why didn't you shield me sooner noob? Do your job.")

I mean, I like support duo lanes. Duo lanes are probably the most fun dynamic in League presently.

But I don't like the 'required fusion' dynamic of supports currently, where they're basically expected to perform maintenance on their lane partner rather than jointly fight.

So how to rectify that? Well either through rework of supports or itemization, they should probably gain more strategic power.

Basically, if you can balance the game so that supports 'Become Blitzcrank'. Gamechangers.

If I draft Naga Siren, I changed the game.

If I draft Blitzcrank, I changed the game.

Carries (marksmen) probably have a similar problem as well. By virtue of working similarly, they each promote similar strategies.

In Dota, if the carry's Jungle Lifestealer, that's going to perhaps have a very different strategy from Ganking Luna carry.

To be honest, many support problems may be tied to the mechanics of the Marksmen they are currently usually paired with. The safer laning of the marksman, and the 'required farm and protect for lategame' may limit the power of supports-- they can't dominate everyone when paired with a marksman, and they can't make the marksman too untouchable on top of the ranged safety already present.
I feel like you are picking and choosing responses. If someone misuses a shen ult or doesn't use it when someone gets caught out people *****. People will ***** about anything honestly. You cant just act like Shen is excluded form being *****ed out for not helping someone do something just because he isn't Janna.


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Kinaro

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I do think each person in a fight needs to generate "threat," to use RPG terms. Support probably don't do enough of this, or cause play changes to happen due to impact (Janna shielding in a 45-minute game teamfight? Maybe we need to swap targets for a sec and let it fall). There should be a decision of if you need to deal with the support, but I think that decision might be too easy right now.
I love you!


(Even though you put the comma inside the quotation marks lol.)


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Kinaro

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
In theory, utility scaling should allow similar things to Aghs/Refresher. "I want to send Janna mid, because when she gets that Refresher Orb, it's going to make my team's strategy even better."
I know this is only a small part of what you said, but I don't think positions should vary the power level of a Champion, instead they should create niches for Champions.
If a Champion is viable in two positions and one of them makes it flat out stronger, it may create a team level decision but will never be satisfying for the player who has to play a "lower version" of the Champion. I.E. I wouldn't have fun playing Lulu support, when Lulu mid were viable and basically did everything support Lulu did but better.


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redz

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Hey more elo, im interested to know if you gave an eye over my changes as well.
they were summed up on page 2 of this thread (and there was a link to a huge ass post as well).


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lordbrandy

Senior Member

01-30-2014

so while im here i have a question ive been dieing to know when will karthus be getting a VU if one his model is really outdated when compared to others


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Mid Soraka

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Senior Member

01-30-2014

Can we also get a minor QOL improvement for Soraka please?!

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4213317


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NeroUS

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I've actually fiddled with this idea a bit - Protection Monk, imo, is one of the most interesting-to-play style healers I've seen, and I used to play it quite a bit in GW1. I like the core idea, but it has some caveats I think it'd need to be successful in LoL.

RoF is the style of spell that can work if you design it around perfect use - IE, a good Soraka would hit it reactively or in chaotic teamfights perfectly - that's a result you can expect out of pretty good players becuase "damage incoming" is a common trigger that will usually activate in most situations. This fact is why Prot/Boon was so strong - RoF is a highly reliable heal due to the ease of the condition that fires the heal.

To me, then, it means that you have to modify the paradigm on that a little, especially since plays like wanding the shield off first aren't actions you can take in League (the interactive portion of the skill). Examples;

* A "cook" (small delay after cast before the shield activates) time that disallows perfect reactive use but favors proactive use; puts a bit of a Sophie's Choice in the enemy's hand of what to do about the incoming RoF.

* An incredibly long cooldown that makes proper use of getting the most out of the shield important (boring, but would work).

* A short duration, and blocks either a spell or auto, but not both. Still would be reactive, but some interactive timing play would exist.

* Heals for X% of damage blocked on the attack, allowing some "wanding" style play to return.

Its just a few ideas, but with some changes it's a possible direction. It also depends on how you weight the block and the heal numerically.

Good post, I like your reasoning sections after each change. Meddler, Scruffy and I are talking about Soraka this week - along with an updated stack-ranking of rework/relaunch prioritization. Yay organization!
I want to say that I really like the Soraka changes that came out in the last rework. I would like to hear your opinion though on the interaction between Q and W in her kit.

The idea, as I understand it, is to make soraka more interactive by requiring her to play the risky role of getting close enough to the front line to Q so she gets an extra W.

I really like this idea because (a) I think it helps provide counterplay, (b) I think it makes her feel more relevant because it makes it worthwhile for the opponent to focus the support, (c) it keeps her focused on healing.

I would like to know whether you have considered enhancing the interaction between her Q and W and maybe providing some interaction between her E and W as well. This could help make her more of a carry-support and make her gameplay for more interesting for both sides (as well as providing for different, more AP focused itemization paths, potentially sacrificing mid game utility for lategame strength).

Note: if you even lowered the range of her Q a little bit, you could afford to give her more spell synergy, and she wouldn't perform well in solo lanes because her push would be weaker!


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theoryyy

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Finally someone pointing out the amazingness of Prot monks (from a design standpoint). Morello, what about infuse? (the GW skill) as a ult? It was the definition of clutch-proactive-heal and high risk/high reward.

For those who don't know:

Infuse Health: Spell. Heals for 100...129...136% of half your current Health. Lose half your current Health. Cannot self-target.

This was used to prevent what we called in PvP "Spikes".

Basically, the whole enemy team (8 people) would call a priority target to be taken down. The shot caller would sometimes do a 3,2,1 on Skype/vent/TS, and people would combo this target to death.

You had to have amazing reflexes sometimes to infuse the right target, and some teams would trick you into "fake" spiking a target for you to lose half your health by infusing, then either kill you or an other target.