@Morello You used to work on Guild wars; why not make Soraka a Protection Monk?

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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-29-2014

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Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Attack-triggering heals perhaps can be reasonably assured to be scaling with the action occurring in the game, rather than passive healing.
And speaking of:

Support abilities which buff allies based upon the amount of combat around may be a quite useful target for non-disabler supports (perhaps a huge unused niche in League).

What happens if Soraka's W grants a spell shield to an ally, healing if it's popped?

What if a support can grant Hecarim's W to an ally?

In the past, I recommended the exercise of trying to design a fun Support that does zero damage to enemies and has zero disables for enemies--

Someone whose gameplay revolves totally around making things more favorable for allies.

What would Riot do for such a champion?

Can Soraka be made to feel important and powerful through her help of teammates?

In Dota, gold on a support can mean a Sheepstick or Aghanim's Scepter or even Mekansm-- potentially great boons to the team.

Can League fulfill that style of support play, where a team actually wants to give the support gold for powerful items?


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DarksideEric

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Morello, while not about Soraka per say, how would you feel about a Champion that heals allies for more based on how much Health the healer has? Envision like, a "fighter/support" that would want to be in the mix of fights somewhat in the same style as a Leona or a Yorick.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-29-2014

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It's hard to do without removing a lot of agency - "Kill the healer" play could do this, but it tends to not leave a lot of room for additional play (isn't this both the boon and problem with ADC?)

I do feel supports should support, as in need someone else to be at their most effective. That could use to be more impactful than currently later in the game, I think.
Well, I'm not sure why in League there must be this absolute exclusivity of 'Kill the Healer'--

Isn't there that balance point where enemies must decide whether they want to target the support versus targeting the DPS?

Like, there's a point of healing strength where the healer is terrible. They do nothing and are ignored.
Then there's the perhaps opposite point of The Healer Is Everything, and they are responsible for the life and death of the entire team.
But between those two, there may be a point where both the healer and the DPS are contributing
somewhat evenly to the success of the team.

It's like when discussing the power of MTG cards: Is a 2/3 for 1 mana OP? Probably. How about 2 mana? And so on. Eventually you get to a point where it becomes balanced. And past that, underpowered.

So with Marksmen currently, they exclude other forms of DPS. I mean, that's largely their problem.

Would a healer exclude other forms of support like Blitzcrank or Janna? In theory, you should have a valid strategic reason for each choice.

That's a function of game balance.

So currently in League, a symptom of imbalance may be bans being used on 'fotm' champions, rather than trying to ban team strategies. Playing a hard engage team should tend to ban Janna to further the strategy.

But if both teams are playing to the same "protect the marksman" strategy, and there's only one set of most optimal champions for that, the game may get 'hemmed in' as to what can be done.


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Vo0d0ochild

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Senior Member

01-29-2014

I love GW1 and I love this idea


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Timjin

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I've actually fiddled with this idea a bit - Protection Monk, imo, is one of the most interesting-to-play style healers I've seen, and I used to play it quite a bit in GW1. I like the core idea, but it has some caveats I think it'd need to be successful in LoL.

Good post, I like your reasoning sections after each change. Meddler, Scruffy and I are talking about Soraka this week - along with an updated stack-ranking of rework/relaunch prioritization. Yay organization!
Morello! Thank you for the response as well as the compliment. =)

I'm very glad to see that you have considered doing something of the sort with Soraka, at least in experimentation. I agree that the idea of "wanding" the shield off through a lower damage ability is much better than just waiting for the shield to wear off.

Not sure what the team will come up with, regardless; I'm excited to see Soraka get some attention. This whole Toxic or useless situation has got to stop and I;m thrilled that Riot has been attacking this vigorously for the past year.

Keep up the great work!


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Guny

Member

01-29-2014

@Morello new lux skin where (

A promise is a promise!


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AntiMage II

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Morello pls delete her E. No more free magic.


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PHoToS999

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Morello, something I've been doing a lot recently is playing Soraka in a solo lane, and I've gotta say that I've been cleaning up. While Soraka has traditionally been a support, I'm finding that her Q is far more suited to a solo lane, since it has both high damage, low cost, and bears extreme risk for those staying in, making her very difficult to play against. Not only that, it pushes the lane hard, something adc's traditionally whine very hard about (sometimes with good reason). To sum up the top lane experience, her Q makes her extremely risky to engage, but if you engage, her W gives her huge armor and sustain, and her E keeps combo casters from casting. The longer the fight drags on, the riskier it is, making each and every engage costlier than the last. Not only that, it makes her into a combo caster, of a sort. You Q>Q>E>Q>Q>W and suddenly they've lost a ton of MR and Soraka has massive defense and a lot of health. She is perfectly suited for sustained fights, skirmishes and poking, only going down if someone is able to burst her or cc her down long enough. Even then, a well timed zhonyas with another well timed E can win her fights that seem unwinnable. I've won multiple fights against burst casters like Lux and LeBlanc. Against popular "op" champs like Yasuo and Riven, she's a powerhouse of pain. Farmed and fed, she's a force to be reckoned with.

However, this massive bully of a champion is completely bereft of any showing as a support. Soraka is the "I can't support" support, because all they do is heal and refresh mana. When supporting, Q is largely useless, because your adc is doing physical damage, not magic. Not only that, you can't even use it often, since it pushes the wave. Not only that, her W's massive cd punishes her for not using Q to poke. In essence, Soraka's most powerful aspect is completely nullified when she's a support. She's weak and unintimidating, relying on her adc to do the work.

If you plan on reworking Soraka further, I'd urge you to look at her Q, instead of focusing only on the heals. If you wish to make Soraka a better support, look at the skill that doesn't help her support. Personally, I'd prefer for her to be left as-is, since she's so strong as a solo laner. She could be the support that broke out of supporting and took top by storm. I have faith in Soraka.

Umbasa.


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OMG halp meh plz

Senior Member

01-29-2014

I'm personally against changing Q from a Point blank aoe into yet another generic skillshot. It just won't be Soraka without it.

Also the % health sacrifice doesn't suit Soraka IMO, I'd prefer that be saved for a completely new support where that aspect can be explored more.


Shamepless plug - http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4225940


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiMage II View Post
Morello pls delete her E. No more free magic.
Asking to delete a Silence that perhaps doesn't cost any mana to cast.

You may need to work on your anti-maging.


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