What we expected when Riot said "Support Utility will scale with AP"

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Sefam

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Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
To be fair Morello, this is GD we're talking about. They've been witch hunting you on Support issues since the very first Janna nerf oh so long ago.
And how is Reddit any better?

Frankly, playing a traditional support feels extremely bad against all the Leonas and the Annies.


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Martyrofsand

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofSFL View Post
Most
Utility support is still incredibly strong, but most of us simply are blinded by our current situation to see it.



One day when you go against a Thresh/Leona who start with a Dorans shield and go fairly deep into the defensive masteries you will realize how wrong what you just said it. To put it into some perspective for you though my last game I was Sona against a Thresh who started Dorans. My Q+Power Chord combo did around 50 damage at level 1 mean while his E empowered AA hit me for roughly 80 damage. If he could of actually landed any hooks in lane we would of lost. No matter what poke support you take you won't beat Leona/Thresh without considerably out playing them right now, Annie's existance is irrelevant to their current standings.


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Saccharina

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01-29-2014

I expected Sona breasts to scale with AP.


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Such League Wow

Senior Member

01-29-2014

I don't understand why Sona's AP ratios were nerfed...I just don't get it.


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Sefam

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01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyrofsand View Post
One day when you go against a Thresh/Leona who start with a Dorans shield and go fairly deep into the defensive masteries you will realize how wrong what you just said it. To put it into some perspective for you though my last game I was Sona against a Thresh who started Dorans. My Q+Power Chord combo did around 50 damage at level 1 mean while his E empowered AA hit me for roughly 80 damage. If he could of actually landed any hooks in lane we would of lost. No matter what poke support you take you won't beat Leona/Thresh with considerably out playing them right now, Annie's existance is irrelevant to their current standings.
Doran's Shield is also a big issue that needs addressing. I'm a Lulu player, and my passive is neutered big time by Doran's, and typically, the only way to win against Doran's is to get Doran's yourself, otherwise you just don't have the necessary sustain.

Oh, and the gold income just isn't big enough to compensate.


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofSFL View Post
If it wasn't for Annie, Thresh and Leona would never have gotten as popular or as dominate. They are the only two who can take her on currently with a high success rate. Think real hard here, Leona wasn't even on the Radar for almost the entirety of her being. Thresh was a common Pick at some points, but Highly aggressive poke supports ruin his day.
You're right that Annie forces squishy supports out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofSFL View Post
Once we solve the Annie problem bot, the position is back open for traditional supports, most who actually kick both Thresh and Leona's teeth in when played right.
I think you'll find this assessment is out of date. Leona feels all but impervious to poke on live today -- if you play Leona against Lulu and let Lulu land every Q, Lulu will run out of mana long before you run out of health. I really like playing poke supports but I can't make any of them work as well as just playing Leona or Thresh myself.

Certainly the pro scene commonly bans Annie out, and nobody responds to a Leona pick by taking something to poke her with. The go to pick if you can't have Annie or Thresh tends to be Alistar.


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exec3

Senior Member

01-29-2014

I hope when Janna gets looked at she gets to do more in lane. I feel like dead weight in lane with the hugely long cooldowns and utterly non existent damage (meaning no point in harassing). I only feel decent in mid-late game though i'm annoyed with itemization as I never feel like I get to build AP, ever. Also her ult is weird, 90% of the time it's used only for the knockback making half the spell utterly ignored.


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Vox Burakkuhoru

Senior Member

01-29-2014

need more


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Sefam

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01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokingPuffin View Post
I think you'll find this assessment is out of date. Leona feels all but impervious to poke on live today -- if you play Leona against Lulu and let Lulu land every Q, Lulu will run out of mana long before you run out of health. I really like playing poke supports but I can't make any of them work as well as just playing Leona or Thresh myself.
And it's even worst when Leona has Doran's Shield. You can't do anything but focus the enemy ADC, in which case Leona will simply jump you since she is impervious to poke and can easily all-in without consequences.


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MasterofSFL

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSmurfAccount View Post
Supports were on their way to being mini-carries (like Annie support) with the support income changes alone. I got from Bronze III to Silver III in a week playing Annie support, and Sona when she was banned. Sona was just as potent in lane and teamfights back then as a mini-carry.
I jumped from Silver 4, back all the way to 1 in 3 days (went back to 2) playing traditional supports.

I really don't see how anyone can argue that supports were in a better position before than they are now. They had very little gold, were ward mules and relied on extremely over-tuned kits to get anything done, consequently they were nerfed whenever they got "too good."

Now they have gold, they are not the ward mules and their ability to support can be adjusted accordingly without touching their entire kit to do it.

The argument now is akin to elevating to saying Tiger Woods (Annie) is the only good Golfer, ever, when his competitors (other Supports) are very competent at what they do, he's just Leagues better.

Annie needs a Nerf that isn't going to affect her Mid too much, she's too good as a support right now. That said, Supports as is are not as terrible as players (GD mainly) make them out to be, not even close. It's the typical GD over-exaggeration that's been lodged in GD tradition since forever.