What we expected when Riot said "Support Utility will scale with AP"

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Martyrofsand

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofSFL View Post
I just want to say to you Morello, that I personally love these changes you made.

I've been supporting for over 3 years now, beginning all the way back to Karma and Maokai and these chang. E have completely changed how I can affect my games.

While there is a ton of negativity surrounding your support rework, the positives that have risen out of these new changes out weight the negatives completely (though many would disagree). Support Champions need some tuning overall, but the amount needed I feel isn't that much, simply the community as a whole doesn't recognize the subtleties of utility.

Keep up the good work. Thank you.

The "subleties of utility" was what we had in previous seasons. What we have now is all in lockdown and low up kill lanes in bot and legit utility for the most part has gone out the window. There is absolutely nothing subtle when it comes to Leona/Thresh/Annie they simply get in ones face and say die.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Krshna

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
So, two things:

1) Agree support scaling needs a tuning pass. More follow-up we need to do there.
2) Stop with the "ONLY NON-SUPPORTS ARE IN-GAME" when Lulu, Nami, Taric and even some Janna are getting played in lieu of this. Don't overblow a reasonable critique of the scaling satisfaction with false and sensationalized statements.
Usually I'd agree with you on this Morello, but in this particular context, it's barely hyperbole. How many Lulu, Nami, Taric and Janna picks are people ACTUALLY seeing? I know that as far as what I've seen, Thresh, Annie and Leona are, for all intents and purposes, the only picks.

But that's not even the main point. AP Support Scaling either needs to do something dramatic and noticeable (and good), or it should just be scrapped for letting Supports scale their damage for Teamfights.

I'm all for making it good, but it doesn't need a "tuning pass", it needs jacked up by an order of magnitude if anyone is going to care.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Knight Auditor

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
That might be true. I just don't want the support "religious argument" to cloud the conversation about support scaling needing more work.

We agree there generally (and some of this is in the support items, too - Xyph and friends are plowing on that right now).

EDIT: Evident with the reactionary downvotes in this thread. Realllllly? You can't even not downvote a post I agree they need love?
Try actually giving them some love instead of talking about it, then you can get your pat on the head.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EpicSmurfAccount

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
So, two things:

1) Agree support scaling needs a tuning pass. More follow-up we need to do there.
2) Stop with the "ONLY NON-SUPPORTS ARE IN-GAME" when Lulu, Nami, Taric and even some Janna are getting played in lieu of this. Don't overblow a reasonable critique of the scaling satisfaction with false and sensationalized statements.
LOL. You're an absolute f*cking tool mate. Supports were fine as they were, yet you felt compelled to change the least important aspect to them? What I want from a support is good CC, and poke in lane - yet you gutted the AP ratios and base damages of every support on the hunch that they might be viable in mid lane? THAT'S A GOOD THING CONSIDERING HALF OF THE MID LANE CHAMPIONS POOL IS BEING PLAYED IN THE BOTTOM LANE AT THE MOMENT.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EpicSmurfAccount

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Sorry, rant over. I just can't stand people who f*ck up -blatantly- but refuse to both a) admit they shat the bed AND b) refuse to return what was/is affected by their incompetence to a healthy state (9/10 time their former state).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MasterofSFL

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyrofsand View Post
The "subleties of utility" was what we had in previous seasons. What we have now is all in lockdown and low up kill lanes in bot and legit utility for the most part has gone out the window. There is absolutely nothing subtle when it comes to Leona/Thresh/Annie they simply get in ones face and say die.
Again, the community doesn't understand the subtitles of utility.

Most of the newer (and reworked) supports lost very little and gained much, Soraka and Janna are the only ones who really suffered.

If it wasn't for Annie, Thresh and Leona would never have gotten as popular or as dominate. They are the only two who can take her on currently with a high success rate. Think real hard here, Leona wasn't even on the Radar for almost the entirety of her being. Thresh was a common Pick at some points, but Highly aggressive poke supports ruin his day.

Then you have Annie, who kicks out most passive/poke supports due to the sheer amount of damage she can put out along side her carry.

Annie overshadows Utility supports simply because she can dominate them with ease, Leona and Thresh are popular because they are not as easily destroyed by one burst combo.

Through all this, a good chunk of our supports are actually still good. They now have gold, AP for Damage and Utility. They have access to many more actives and auras and useful masteries. Their ability to support is much great than it ever was, but people down play this because utility is not something that is inherently obvious to most individuals, while being able to Nuke someone (Annie) or Lock someone down (Thresh/Leona) is.

Once we solve the Annie problem bot, the position is back open for traditional supports, most who actually kick both Thresh and Leona's teeth in when played right.

Utility support is still incredibly strong, but most of us simply are blinded by our current situation to see it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

jmlinden7

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloDragoon View Post
Am I the only one here, who still enjoys playing every other support but thresh, and annie?
Some people enjoy winning.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EpicSmurfAccount

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofSFL View Post
Again, the community doesn't understand the subtitles of utility.

Most of the newer (and reworked) supports lost very little and gained much, Soraka and Janna are the only ones who really suffered.

If it wasn't for Annie, Thresh and Leona would never have gotten as popular or as dominate. They are the only two who can take her on currently with a high success rate. Think real hard here, Leona wasn't even on the Radar for almost the entirety of her being. Thresh was a common Pick at some points, but Highly aggressive poke supports ruin his day.

Then you have Annie, who kicks out most passive/poke supports due to the sheer amount of damage she can put out along side her carry.

Annie overshadows Utility supports simply because she can dominate them with ease, Leona and Thresh are popular because they are not as easily destroyed by one burst combo.

Through all this, a good chunk of our supports are actually still good. They now have gold, AP for Damage and Utility. They have access to many more actives and auras and useful masteries. Their ability to support is much great than it ever was, but people down play this because utility is not something that is inherently obvious to most individuals, while being able to Nuke someone (Annie) or Lock someone down (Thresh/Leona) is.

Once we solve the Annie problem bot, the position is back open for traditional supports, most who actually kick both Thresh and Leona's teeth in when played right.

Utility support is still incredibly strong, but most of us simply are blinded by our current situation to see it.
Supports were on their way to being mini-carries (like Annie support) with the support income changes alone. I got from Bronze III to Silver III in a week playing Annie support, and Sona when she was banned. Sona was just as potent in lane and teamfights back then as a mini-carry.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PhailRaptor

Adjudicator

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
EDIT: Evident with the reactionary downvotes in this thread. Realllllly? You can't even not downvote a post I agree they need love?
To be fair Morello, this is GD we're talking about. They've been witch hunting you on Support issues since the very first Janna nerf oh so long ago.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

jmlinden7

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
So, two things:

1) Agree support scaling needs a tuning pass. More follow-up we need to do there.
2) Stop with the "ONLY NON-SUPPORTS ARE IN-GAME" when Lulu, Nami, Taric and even some Janna are getting played in lieu of this. Don't overblow a reasonable critique of the scaling satisfaction with false and sensationalized statements.
Janna literally loses lane to every support. She has a high winrate because support mains play her against people who don't know how to lane aggressively on supports. Isn't a champion that's only good at punishing people for lack of knowledge toxic by your own definition?