What we expected when Riot said "Support Utility will scale with AP"

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Perfect Insanity

Senior Member

01-29-2014

I like this thread, I love Janna to death, shes the reason I got into supporting and honestly S3 was rough enough on squishier supports but you were still able to pull it off if played in a well organized manner. Now, aside from Taric/Thresh/Leona/Annie and the occasional Blitzcrank, you have nothing to go down in the bottom lane. Early level base values make it ridiculously complex to even attempt a duel against those champions.

Almost feels like we're being forced to play these champions honestly. I will agree supports are not easy to balance and that utility scaling sounds like an awesome idea... but as I said some time ago, the utility scaling has come over a year too late and it is just so underwhelming.


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Delibird

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Bumping for great justice.

Just played a game of nami support, deathcap with a 20 stacks mejais (~530 ap), didn't notice a difference in surging tides. they did give an ap ratio to it, right? o.o


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Noxxuss

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Bump for the truth!


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Pangrine

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deliburd View Post
Bumping for great justice.

Just played a game of nami support, deathcap with a 20 stacks mejais (~530 ap), didn't notice a difference in surging tides. they did give an ap ratio to it, right? o.o
Yes, but the problem is that since movement speed has a harsh fall off point, while you're technically giving around +50 movement anything that puts a champion above 400 starts being hit with a severe penalty.

So you can get pretty shiny numbers for her passive, but once people pick up boots 2, it becomes fairly worthless. Yea, you might be granting that extra 3-7 extra move speed that got someone a penta kill, but most people won't even notice it.


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The Dravening

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Priamos View Post
If you can even call them "Supports," haha. They're tanks and mages. It doesn't look like there are any "Supports" left in the bot lane.
Thresh and Leona are actual supports, Annie is blasphemy.


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Neo Cyrus

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Nerf Morello, let's see how he likes it.


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Rijda

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Lulu turning people into racecars
This happens, but it doesn't happen until max CDR and ~200 AP. It's hilarious with Homeguard though.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokingPuffin View Post
The problem with that early testing feedback is that League of Targon's happened and it blinded everyone. At the time, I remember thinking that with all of this gold I was getting I would be playing full-on AP carries in the bot lane. It turns out that the first two weeks of preseason were totally useless for assessing what would really happen with the new gold flow mechanics.



How do you feel about the general concept of expanding what sorts of utility are scaled in support kits? Would you prefer:
1) Increased utility scaling on weaker supports I would like this
2) Increased base values on weaker supports AFAIK it's a matter of being outclassed, not being too weak themselves. The top 3 are too strong.
3) Nerfs to stronger supports Reduce Annie's stun further (0.85/1.05/1.25 seconds seems legitimate) and reduce damage return from Molten Shield; figure out how to nerf Leona/Thresh by asking pros/diamonds (I personally suspect nerfing Thresh's E passive early would help; Leona getting reduced early damage on all abilities might help too). My interest is abstract; I honestly don't play Summoner's Rift that much but do read about stuff. I like using to get feedback that helps me learn more about SR balance without actually having to play it, especially because it lets me think about ideas to improve it to bounce back for more learning. Hopefully at some point Rioters enter the process as critics who can then use the ideas that WILL likely work to improve the game.
4) System-level changes to weaken tanky stuff and strengthen squishy stuff (e.g. Doran's Shield nerf, Perseverance nerf) Well, Perseverance is getting halved on PBE.
5) No changes
6) System-level changes to utility itemization that vastly increase the amount of utility and defense itemization available to and viable on AD champions and increase the AP on existing support itemization. Make NLR have a minor magic damage overload passive and slightly less AP. Make Deathcap give less base AP, but give permanent magic damage overload instead of %AP. Make DFG give even more magic damage overload for its active (along with a small base overload), but make it not stack with Deathcap's magic damage overload. Make Zhonya's give spell overload. Add a support-oriented item that increases total AP but does not generally boost damage as well as new Deathcap. Add an item that causes you and all allies to deal overloaded magic damage to enemies in an area for 8 seconds (less potent than DFG) that builds from NLR. Add AP and AD sub-paths to traditional support and tank item paths. Give Talisman active AP scaling and nerf its base scaling. Add more items that build from Fiendish Codex. Add more mana regen to the game. Give Zeke's Herald 10% lifesteal+12% spellvamp aura and move its AD component back to the normal stats of the item.
7) Make enemy creep deaths give 4 gold to nearby allied champions even when not killed oneself; reduce Ancient Coin/Nomad's Medallion/Talisman of Ascension passive to 2/3/3 extra gold per creep killed.

The last one is mostly just personal preference (I do not last hit well and dislike how important it is for player economy.)


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Postal Miku

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Megathread GO!


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BastionKross

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Someone needs to print this thread out and physically mail it to all the Riot employees.

Probably with a short message like "Read me for cookies" on the envelope.