Ironstylus: "We're on track to release a VU every month or so."

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ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

02-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
...maybe.





He and I might have a secret plan to redesign Kayle and Morgana from the ground up together. "Might" is a strong word, though.

ETA?








You know what, screw ETA. It is going to be AWESOME when it is done, isn't it? Promise?


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

02-04-2014
59 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG halp meh plz View Post
This is only because:
- you advertised it on twitter
- it was advertised in this thread

We both know if these two things didn't happen, there would be zero discussion in that forum. Its a dead zone, where dreams and ideas go to die
Now we're getting into some chicken and egg territory.

Yes, is there a problem that the discussion was jump started that way? What if it encourages people to migrate because they may have a better shot of their questions being answered?

Sorry, I don't see how advertising, or forwarding people there is a bad thing or negates the good.

That's basically saying it's not fair because I told people I was going to have a discussion there. I link threads, reddit posts, art, lots of stuff, in my twitter all the time. This time it so happened to be something on the community beta site. Pointing people in that direction creates traffic. Isn't that a good thing? Should they not be forwarded to a place where discussion is taking place?


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Diana x Me

Senior Member

02-04-2014

Mr magical Parrot any thoughts on Warwicks VU?


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Kainel

Senior Member

02-04-2014

Hello!

I've noticed all of the major reworks have focused heavily on bringing the spirit of Runeterra into their identity through location based lore.

While I like everything done so far, how do you decide where to bring in champions with scattered ties? Zilean, the champion who will eventually be reworked closest to my heart, is from Urtistan and quite frankly I feel like Urtistan isn't all that good a place to be from. Like Utristan, it leaves Zilean in this awkward place of Demacian Ideals, Shurima mysticism, and Piltover Design unrelated to everyone.

In my head cannon (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...headcannon.png) I always imagine Zilean solidly from Shurima - I have a good skin for it, it ties in a little bit better this mystic who casts regret(tick tick tick) and nullifies death, and have ties with other skillsets from the area (speed buffs from Sivir, resurrection from Amumu's lore) But I can't help but think he might be "better" (and I'd get more content) if he were one of Piltovers great minds or one of Zaun's Mad (peaceably mad but mad) scientists or Demacias voice of caution and reason.

And that's one champion!


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Hellioning

Senior Member

02-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Now we're getting into some chicken and egg territory.

Yes, is there a problem that the discussion was jump started that way? What if it encourages people to migrate because they may have a better shot of their questions being answered?

Sorry, I don't see how advertising, or forwarding people there is a bad thing or negates the good.

That's basically saying it's not fair because I told people I was going to have a discussion there. I link threads, reddit posts, art, lots of stuff, in my twitter all the time. This time it so happened to be something on the community beta site. Pointing people in that direction creates traffic. Isn't that a good thing? Should they not be forwarded to a place where discussion is taking place?
The problem is when you use that thread as an example of 'look how many people are coming to look at this thread because of the great discussion going on there!' It might be the other way around; there are many people there, so discussion happens, and by the law of averages, some of it is great. Compare that thread's upvotes to literally anything else in that forum; it doesn't even compare.


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OMG halp meh plz

Senior Member

02-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Now we're getting into some chicken and egg territory.

Yes, is there a problem that the discussion was jump started that way? What if it encourages people to migrate because they may have a better shot of their questions being answered?

Sorry, I don't see how advertising, or forwarding people there is a bad thing or negates the good.

That's basically saying it's not fair because I told people I was going to have a discussion there. I link threads, reddit posts, art, lots of stuff, in my twitter all the time. This time it so happened to be something on the community beta site. Pointing people in that direction creates traffic. Isn't that a good thing? Should they not be forwarded to a place where discussion is taking place?
I never said its a BAD thing you advertised it, I'm saying that its cruel to tell people to make topics there when the only chance of getting a discussion going is to advertise it HERE, and by Ironstylus no less (If you haven't noticed, you're one of the favorite Riot posters here)

Until the forum COMPLETELY migrates to the new format and these are shut down, that place will remain a graveyard.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

02-04-2014
60 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
To be fair, this thread and your own tweet have given that thread much more notice and attention then basically any other thread in the beta forums. Now, this will probably change when these forums get shut down in exchange for the beta forums, but until then, in order to get any notice from the players, you'd have to tweet every single thread you see that you think would be good for discussion. And if you want to do that, sure, that's fine, but I thought the beta forums were supposed to make things easier for you guys.

It also has the issue of the lack of trolls and general unpleasantness that this forum is known for is going to be temporary; when you guys make the switch, those people are forced to either A) stop posting or B) post in the new forums. Which on do you think they're going to pick?

I'm not saying it's going to be terrible or anything, I'm just saying that you are way too optimistic about this change. I severely doubt changing forums is going to make the stupid threads go away.
Absolutely. When you point people to where discussion is happening, that tends to happen. I still fail to see how that's bad. You tell people where a thing is happening, they go to the thing, end of story. What's the problem?

Indeed. I probably will tweet when I have a discussion I'm engaging in. I do that all the time. So does Moobeat, or Travis. Creating traffic isn't hard or somehow a disservice. It's telling people where stuff is going down.

Eventually it'll be common knowledge, that's how these forums got traction. Word of mouth. When people see that they have a good shot of dev engagement in another venue, we'll see some migration. It'll happen pretty naturally I feel. So far it has been easier for me to track what's happening, and other devs have jumped into that Sion thread.

If players engaging in toxic behavior post in those forums, then so be it. But they're comments will have to actually garner upvotes in order to gain visibility. That's a big component here. In this format I can't ignore the toxicity. It gets mixed in and is of equal page real estate. With the system that's being tested, there's less probability of that negativity rising. Do you want to upvote something extremely toxic, or do you want a legitimate question which is phrased politely to get to the top? It'll ultimately be your choice. If that toxic posting ebbs, that's a big incentive for devs to come and engage.

Sorry, I guess I'm just always really optimistic :/


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

02-04-2014
61 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kainel View Post
Hello!

I've noticed all of the major reworks have focused heavily on bringing the spirit of Runeterra into their identity through location based lore.

While I like everything done so far, how do you decide where to bring in champions with scattered ties? Zilean, the champion who will eventually be reworked closest to my heart, is from Urtistan and quite frankly I feel like Urtistan isn't all that good a place to be from. Like Utristan, it leaves Zilean in this awkward place of Demacian Ideals, Shurima mysticism, and Piltover Design unrelated to everyone.

In my head cannon (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...headcannon.png) I always imagine Zilean solidly from Shurima - I have a good skin for it, it ties in a little bit better this mystic who casts regret(tick tick tick) and nullifies death, and have ties with other skillsets from the area (speed buffs from Sivir, resurrection from Amumu's lore) But I can't help but think he might be "better" (and I'd get more content) if he were one of Piltovers great minds or one of Zaun's Mad (peaceably mad but mad) scientists or Demacias voice of caution and reason.

And that's one champion!
Good points. That's in fact why faction/location solidification is important. Regions, nations, tribes, are all going to have visual signifyers and shape language native to them. That's why it helps to solidify the factions and sometimes retcon champions into a different faction so that there's some thematic connection.


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Hellioning

Senior Member

02-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
If players engaging in toxic behavior post in those forums, then so be it. But they're comments will have to actually garner upvotes in order to gain visibility. That's a big component here. In this format I can't ignore the toxicity. It gets mixed in and is of equal page real estate. With the system that's being tested, there's less probability of that negativity rising. Do you want to upvote something extremely toxic, or do you want a legitimate question which is phrased politely to get to the top? It'll ultimately be your choice. If that toxic posting ebbs, that's a big incentive for devs to come and engage.
The problem is that my definition of 'toxic' and the community's definition of 'toxic' tends to differ. For example, there was a thread in which the OP sarcastically asked for Pantheon to be covered up, because his physique is completely unrealistic for any man to achieve and therefore is inappropriate. This is obviously a sarcastic response to people complaining about skimpily dressed and proportioned female champions which and was upvoted massively. Now, I disagree with this comment and the way it was presented, but clearly the community disagreed. Likewise, in that thread, those comments that agreed with the OP's premise were upvoted, while ones that disagreed were downvoted, occasionally to where I had to click to see it. These votes were made regardless of the post's quality; it was merely 'do I agree with this post's opinion or not?'

Give a bunch of people I disagree with the power to control what threads me and other people see? Yeah, I'm not too excited for that.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Indeed, such discussions have happened, and they've been difficult to track and fraught with other problems. They derail, become toxic, and end up becoming impossible to wade through. We all agree, nothing is going to be perfect, but the new system at least has room to utilize new tools and features. There's some ways to grow and tune.
So okay, I'm not sure why you believe such listed potentially negative occurrences are guaranteed to occur in this formatting exclusively.

The issue isn't the codebase and the ability for new features, it's the raw basic formatting.

You can have new features in other formats.

I mean if you're going to use hyperbole to state that the Sion thread is better than every discussion ever had on this forum...

I can do the same by saying the Xerath thread is better than the Sion thread, and got much more work done.

So this is sort of an unhelpful 'back and forth' that is omitting many details of each system.

And pretty much nothing gets improved if you're not discussing the hows and whys.