Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Cokemonkey11

Junior Member

03-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
You built a crystal scepter and think that makes it a bruiser build? Ok.
No, I never once said I wanted Diana to be a bruiser or a meat shield, I wanted to space out her damage potential and reduce her full burst.

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You spammed Diana games probably to try and prove a point that's cool.
No, I bought and played her only ~10 times so far. I made it very clear initially that I didn't play Diana in the first place. I've just intended to prove my point that I can comment on the viability of Diana's kit without having played her.

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She needs burst because if you force her into the Jax/Kayle role she will be just as if not more homogenized than making her a better assassin.
Not at all. Kayle is played as a burst mage (which will go away) and Jax is a highly malleable fighter/assassin/bruiser. Diana as an AP DPS Fighter would only be similar to Elise and Rumble, a class of champions that is very small at the moment.

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A champion should not entirely revolve around their passive and that seems to he all you are looking at.
No, I just want Diana to have more DPS and less up-front burst. Buffing her innate is a great way to do that.

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You also seem to think that her being an assassin is had just because.
No, I think her being an assassin is bad because it promotes binary, frustrating playstyle for both the Diana and the receiving end.

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I get it. You have a fantasy that you want fulfilled. However instead of turning a champion around entirely you could also just get a new one. What's the point of altering everything about her kit just to fulfill a fantasy when she does in reality have a functional one?
No, I don't have any fantasy to fulfill. I don't care about Diana because I don't play her. I just want to introduce options to this thread that change her core playstyle without changing her kit much. I'm just as much warning you as to what will probably happen as I am trying to fix her.

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Saying you want her to be a fighter that has auto attacks that scale off of AP doesn't work without itemization changes or a broken kit. Think about all the extra stats and "hidden" power you want to put in her kit to make it work. That alone should tell you something about the idea doesn't worn out.
In every game I've played her so far I've played her as a fighter. I never assassinated players or QRR'd. I used QR QR to stick to carries. The fact that I did it successfully is merely because my team outmatched the opposition. If you really think stat improvements can't make this a viable option for her in higher level play, you're being silly. I went 10/0/6 in my last game.

Just stop and think for a minute, are my changes really that damaging to her assassination capabilities? She can still QRR carries who get caught out, I've just introduced a tiny bit of extra counterplay plus some reward for players who extend their fights.


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Diana x Me

Senior Member

03-02-2014

All these points are debatable. Lets just leave it at that. If we had some way to test these ideas out then we could figure out what is best for her overall. But since we don't have that, we can only presume so much.


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AyiB13

Junior Member

03-02-2014

please fix a bug where for first win when it not up yet & work on Sion please


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BellaFrozenheart

Senior Member

03-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
I think some of the frustration is the terminology we are using to discuss her. The amorphous nature of "fighter" and "bruiser" are irritating the players who have played her since release.

There is some fear too, that all these upvoted comments about her being altered into an engage tank, are the majority opinion. But again, the base of players who have become accustomed to Diana as she was originally designed, find that idea a foreign cancer being shoved onto their favorite character by people with only passive skin in the game.

And lastly, frustration at the time table. We know that any changes to her design will take a huge amount of time. And remember, from our point of view, Diana hasn't sincerely been a solid pick for around a year.

So for a year or so now, when I've picked Diana in ranked (often), I know in the back of my mind that I have picked her because I like her, and that I am risking my chances of winning and my teams chances of winning, for not picking Fizz, Orianna, Lissandra, or Gragas, who accomplish the same things better than she does.
I have to agree with this statement, and it's sentiments. I love Dia, I even bought her skin.

I am not out-rightly opposed to any of the changes to her kit that have been proposed.

I even have some ideas, like making her orbs on W spiral outward and instead of applying a shield, they apply a slow to their target?

I dunno, just little ideas like that, that might improve her 'assassin' quality.

Please note that akali does not have a 'solid' escape feature, she can juke opponents via smart placement of w, and mind games, but lets be honest, unlike zed who has his shadows, and talon who can go invis and aquire a speed boost, we're dealing with champions who are relatively squishy without items, have high damage potential, but only in the right circumstances and with the proper set up.

An Akali player is not going to all in without having landed Q first, the same can be said of Dia.

Both players have the system of Q R E W R. in that order, more or less.

I feel we have to look at this not only as what would 'feel' the best for Dia, both Aesthetically and Mechanically, but also what would work the best.

I always had the idea, that she was supposed to be an assassin, and the tankiness helpled her live through attacks. The nerfs that have been placed on her earlier in the year made it very difficult for me to use her...I actually feel really bad about playing the game because I often 'want' to use her, but cannot, either because of the chances of winning, or situations where I know it wouldn't be good....scratch that, situations where "I" wouldn't be good enough.


I really hope you guys are brainstorming about this, hope to see a reply to this thread from a Red soon.


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LtSmashFSP

Senior Member

03-02-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokemonkey11 View Post
No, I never once said I wanted Diana to be a bruiser or a meat shield, I wanted to space out her damage potential and reduce her full burst.



No, I bought and played her only ~10 times so far. I made it very clear initially that I didn't play Diana in the first place. I've just intended to prove my point that I can comment on the viability of Diana's kit without having played her.



Not at all. Kayle is played as a burst mage (which will go away) and Jax is a highly malleable fighter/assassin/bruiser. Diana as an AP DPS Fighter would only be similar to Elise and Rumble, a class of champions that is very small at the moment.



No, I just want Diana to have more DPS and less up-front burst. Buffing her innate is a great way to do that.



No, I think her being an assassin is bad because it promotes binary, frustrating playstyle for both the Diana and the receiving end.



No, I don't have any fantasy to fulfill. I don't care about Diana because I don't play her. I just want to introduce options to this thread that change her core playstyle without changing her kit much. I'm just as much warning you as to what will probably happen as I am trying to fix her.



In every game I've played her so far I've played her as a fighter. I never assassinated players or QRR'd. I used QR QR to stick to carries. The fact that I did it successfully is merely because my team outmatched the opposition. If you really think stat improvements can't make this a viable option for her in higher level play, you're being silly. I went 10/0/6 in my last game.

Just stop and think for a minute, are my changes really that damaging to her assassination capabilities? She can still QRR carries who get caught out, I've just introduced a tiny bit of extra counterplay plus some reward for players who extend their fights.
The simplest way to put it is nerfing her Q makes lane phase even harder and sticking to carries is risky and thus should be rewarded and allowed. QRR is sub optimal and should not be used if at all possible. My main point is you still built quite a bit of damage and you don't look like a peal not just like an assassin that focused the tanks. It works fine when ahead. However I think you need to do more games trying to play her as front line so you can see more of how sub optimal it is to play her in that role. Try both play stjles and I am sure you will find melting carries just as satisfying if not more so. Also buffing her innate but nerfing her ultimate and Q to buff her passive is a bad trade for her laning and team fighting as well as her pick potential. I am not opposed at all to her passive being buffed over her Q and R. I am opposed to making her dive so weak that she can't do it well. My most recent Diana game I played split push top against Nidalee. The one before that I went against GP and built frozen fist and hourglass with a tooth so that he wouldn't crit me sown and I could stay on him. That build focuses more on the passive and cycling spells but the function still is more assassin then bruiser even when team fighting rilled around.


Her passive is probably getting buffed soon anyway thanks to Lifh bane nerfs and that will probably help her tremendously. It will help her jungle and pick potential quite a bit. Ideally you only use your passive once in a duel when ahead and that will actually help her burst. The main reason why heavy reliance on paissv is bad is because of her being melee which leads to just walk away being counterplay to a lot of her damage. It is the main reason why Q and R can't be lowered so she can actually do damage.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

03-03-2014

Hey guys are the changes already on PBE?


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Nathan Evergrizz

Junior Member

03-03-2014

Does this buff affect all of diana's abilities or just her passive?


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ShynnSup

Senior Member

03-03-2014

She is fine as she is.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

03-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Evergrizz View Post
Does this buff affect all of diana's abilities or just her passive?
Only her passive.


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Diana x Me

Senior Member

03-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShynnSup View Post
She is fine as she is.
Disagree, the win rates speak for themselves. Riot even admitted they over nerfed her.