Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Argent Heretic

Senior Member

02-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
He was also on his Smurf in the Diana games I saw which makes her seem stronger than she is. Seeing as he is a challenfer playing in gold.
I'm not saying I'm anywhere near as good as night blue but I'm plat 2 on the pbe and I have tried dozens of different builds with her. Because Riot brutally violated her with extreme prejudice its just not possible to counteract/nullify the amount of damage done to her through build.


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Pinky27

Member

02-05-2014

Hey Vesh (hopefully you're still checking around...),
With the goal of making Diana into more of a fighter than a burst assassin, do you see her moving back into the jungle and out of the midlane?
(When I first started playing Diana and Fiddle were the only AP jungles I knew of and I very rarely see her played in the jungle anymore.)


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Merciless Jesus

Junior Member

02-05-2014

@Vesh if you are still keeping an eye on this thread, this please tell me what you think.

All she really needs are a few QoL buffs to her mana cost & reverting the last nerf on her Q damage from [60/95/130/165/200(+70% AP)] back to [70/110/150/190/230(+70% AP)]. Keep in mind that her Q on release did [80/125/170/215/260 (+80% AP)].

Diana's base AD is too low to last hit caster minions, forcing her to either prep the caster minion with an AA or or drain her mana pool to get the CS each time she's under tower. Being melee, this leaves her open to harrass from ranged mid laners & opting to instead push which isn't any better of an option because she is a melee without any escapes. I have to assume her base AD is very low because of her passive but some kind of QoL buffs to her laning phase, such as reduced mana costs, would be much appreciated.

I also posted about this a day or so ago about a few changes that can be made. Link

Just to point out and add to my last post. It would be nice if Diana was rewarded for getting the reset on Lunar Rush, such as refunding the cost on her Lunar Rush if she gets the reset. Another idea would be to have her Lunar Rush do more damage to someone afflicted with Moonlight but do reduced damage to someone that is not afflicted with Moonlight.


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Neo Aragorn

Senior Member

02-05-2014

So guys how's your Dota training going? I'm getting prepared to quit this game once Vesh and Morello destroy Diana by making her ****ing auto attack reliant in a game where every melee late game insta-gibbs Diana. Now she can die in 2.1 seconds to Jax instead of 3.4 and be even less able to put down damage to a different target before she dies. Fun. But seriously I'm quitting this game if they screw up Diana any harder than they already have, as impossible as that may sound. That's what I get for only having one main I guess.

I see some people say they vomited at the AA Diana idea, I especially threw up a lung when I read that part about it being "fun" for the opponent. SINCE WHEN IS LOSING EVER FUN? Do you think it's fun being Troll Pole'd by Fizz, auto 1-2 auto shot to half health by a Lucian with a 1 Doran's? Is it fun being unable to flash away from Akali or Nasus? Is it fun knowing you can't touch Nasus late game because he has 4000 HP and literally 1 shots you? Is it fun getting Pentakilled by a Gragas Q R? Is it fun being auto Q auto'd (3 hit killed) by level 2 Kha'Zix even though as mentioned earlier that math doesn't even add up?

*BLAAUGHHH* sorry I just threw up a second lung at that disgusting thought of Diana needing to be "fun" for the opponent. What an absolutely insane troll idea. "Oh yeah I really enjoyed facing that Diana because I DESTROYED HER NO MATTER HOW HARD SHE OUTPLAYED ME AND SHE WAS WORTHLESS LATE GAME!"

Vesh... stop, we repeat, stop, no one likes your idea. Read over the past 100 posts, we play Diana as an assassin, go make a new champion, leave ours alone.


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bandanam4n

Junior Member

02-05-2014

What I think would be the best thing to do would be to give her moonlight some interaction with her passive. now, this would require lots of balancing, but maybe if she was to transition from mage/assassin to more of a fighter, that her damage could be toned down in exchange for some auto-attack interactions with the moonlight.

I think it would be really neat if her moonlight would be consumed on ult, but what if you are already in melee range, and would like some additional cc? the initial moonlight reset on ult would make it nice to initiate team fights, but what then? I think that if the moonlight, upon proc'ing with the moonsilver blade, would maybe produce a slow to the targets affected by moonlight that got struck by the passive, or perhaps the other direction of movespeed for diana, as she was frenzied by the moonlight. riot could take some power away from her damage, and make her a dive in and fight, instead of do or don't. at the same time, in order to keep them close, she would need to consistently land her q in order to stay, as well as weaving in autoattacks to proc the effect. i think it would provide an interesting style, keep your opponents in the moonlight to hack and slash at them merrily.

I would be more than willing to trade some damage away in exchange for more tankiness/sticking power.

otherwise, would some sustain on targets affected by moonlight be in order?

along the lines of:
diana strengthens as twilight fades, healing for 10+2x champion level every time moonsilver blade strikes on one afflicted with moonlight.

this provides interesting opportunities in lane, as if she were to transition to a top-lane bruiser role (or the jungle) her adversaries could use moonlit targets as targets to deny, as well as providing diana some innate sustain to keep her in teamfights longer, merrily swinging her moonsilver blade, as well as laning sustain.

what do you think balance team?


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Neo Aragorn

Senior Member

02-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandanam4n View Post
I would be more than willing to trade some damage away in exchange for more tankiness/sticking
200 + 0.7, 220 + 0.6. Get it through your head. Read it again. 200 + 0.7 and 220 + 0.6, those are her damaging spells. It cannot possibly go any lower, what the **** is there left to nerf on her damage?

She could be given absolute huge buffs on everything except her damage and her win rate would still be below 50% at Plat+. Because guess what? She still dies hard late game and can still be poked into oblivion in lane!

I wish there was some way to lock people out of a thread unless they have 500 games with at least 100 ranked on a certain champion.

I'm sure Vesh with his whopping 2 games as jungle Diana going 3.5/4/5.5 with 50 CS sure knows how it feels to be destroyed late game in literally 3 seconds by one enemy carry despite them being lvl 15 vs your 18 and being 100 minions and 5 kills down. Let's nerf Diana, too stronk amirite?

Let's not forget to continually throw around straw-man catch phrases either. This thread needs more "fun", "healthy", and "anti-fun".


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bandanam4n

Junior Member

02-05-2014

I wrote what I wrote because the common theme from rioters is that they would like to transition diana into a fighter and less of an assassin/mage.

I was attempting to provide something that would perhaps make their goal happen, along with differentiating diana from akali (which is something they would also like to do)

one ratio I would like to point out to you is one that you forgot to mention.
- 250 (+ 60% AP)

Thats the final ratio on her moonsilver blade. That is a significant portion of diana's output, and if she was given the tools to carefully stick/survive to a target in teamfights, I feel that that is one of the most impactful ratios there is.

As for your final statement, I *do* know how it feels to have effectively shut the other laner down but yet am still useless late game. I feel that she feels "better" as someone using the crazy awesome moonsilver blade vs someone who qrr's someone to oblivion... I greatly like the fighter feel as diana.


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Neo Cyrus

Senior Member

02-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandanam4n View Post
what do you think balance team?
You're suggesting nerfing her so I'm sure they love it, especially Morello who had a dirty hand in Urgotting her.

But you know what I think? I think you've never played Diana before.

Look at how dominating Diana is in solo queue, no wonder she has a 100% pick/ban rate in LCS and Worlds, right?
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ArmySquirrel

Senior Member

02-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Aragorn View Post
200 + 0.7, 220 + 0.6. Get it through your head. Read it again. 200 + 0.7 and 220 + 0.6, those are her damaging spells. It cannot possibly go any lower, what the **** is there left to nerf on her damage?

She could be given absolute huge buffs on everything except her damage and her win rate would still be below 50% at Plat+. Because guess what? She still dies hard late game and can still be poked into oblivion in lane!

I wish there was some way to lock people out of a thread unless they have 500 games with at least 100 ranked on a certain champion.

I'm sure Vesh with his whopping 2 games as jungle Diana going 3.5/4/5.5 with 50 CS sure knows how it feels to be destroyed late game in literally 3 seconds by one enemy carry despite them being lvl 15 vs your 18 and being 100 minions and 5 kills down. Let's nerf Diana, too stronk amirite?

Let's not forget to continually throw around straw-man catch phrases either. This thread needs more "fun", "healthy", and "anti-fun".
Her damage is actually nothing great, and no one wants to nerf Diana. People are talking about potential trade offs here and what made Diana so strong when she was strong. We want to figure that out so that we can figure out what we can buff without being spammed with QQ threads titled in variations of "nerf Diana".

If she gets nerfed even the slightest bit from where she is right now, her win rate will plummet like an airplane without wings. She doesn't need damage nerfs in terms of DPS, but she may need that damage distributed a little more. Right now Q-W-R-R can be gotten off almost immediately from a significant distance out and is the vast majority of her damage. The discussions are going we can either BUFF Diana's damage at the exchange of some tankiness to make her a true assassin, or we can reduce the front-end burst of her kit and increase tankiness without necessarily dropping her overall DPS, just making her such that she has to attack longer.


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Neo Cyrus

Senior Member

02-05-2014

You don't seem to understand that her damage cannot be touched from where it is. It's too low to even breathe in the general direction of. You can't seem to understand that if she has some tankiness in return for taking away what little damage she has left or the ability to throw out more auto attacks it will be even worse late game because she cannot stay in a sustained fight at all, even compared to how she is now. She simply can't. Especially if they have any strong carry.

Name a carry with physical damage or a strong tank. Then you'll realize that these suggestions of changing her to an auto attack champ with lower damage would re-coin the phrase Diana'd, because her win rate will fall lower than the 28% average she was at during that month she got nearly deleted. Heh, I just remembered now how they were defending to the death that she was broken OP she is and how she was finally balanced at that 28% win rate. It was 47-52% before the nerfs btw. Meanwhile pre-nerf Kha'Zix was laughing.