Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Lellian

Junior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I still think you're misrepresenting what I've been saying a bit. At least once (and I think more) in this thread I have said I don't think she needs any dramatic changes. I think we all want a healthy and viable Diana who has fun interactive gameplay for both teams, and what I'm suggesting is that increasing the time/effort it takes to kill a target, but giving her more tools to accomplish that task, is a good way to accomplish this. Diana is a champion that should be focused on her autoattacks as well as her spells. She has that awesome moonblade and passive for a reason, and I feel that highlighting that and finding better ways to synergize her autoattacks with her spells is something that (hopefully) most Diana players would find cool.
Yeah, I personally like burst and I always make sure that the passive is included in my combo by either charging it on minions before jumping on someone or (and I assume this is the intended way to do it) jumping on the oponent with Q-R, using W and doing my 3 autos while my shield protects me (it seems perfect cause you have 3 balls on W and you need 3 autos) and when you finish those 3 autos your Q should be back up so you can Q-R-R, I usually have to charge the passive before I have my nashor's, but once I have it I can easily do the 3 autos on the enemy.
Some people like to build her a little more tanky using roa and nashor relying more on her passive's dmg to do consistent dmg instead of bursty, that's not my thing (I go for dfg instead for more burst) but I can say for sure that both work really well with her current kit, I can't say I'd like her kit to change more into any of those two paths.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I still think you're misrepresenting what I've been saying a bit. At least once (and I think more) in this thread I have said I don't think she needs any dramatic changes. I think we all want a healthy and viable Diana who has fun interactive gameplay for both teams, and what I'm suggesting is that increasing the time/effort it takes to kill a target, but giving her more tools to accomplish that task, is a good way to accomplish this. Diana is a champion that should be focused on her autoattacks as well as her spells. She has that awesome moonblade and passive for a reason, and I feel that highlighting that and finding better ways to synergize her autoattacks with her spells is something that (hopefully) most Diana players would find cool.
I suppose what many players are concerned with is that you're not going to accomplish the goal due to potential misconceptions.

Like: You haven't told us what tools you're considering giving her.

So it's a really nebulous and fearful time for her players.

"Is Vesh just going to reduce her damage, but keep her mostly the same, and she's going to be this really weak littleriven who can't burst people and gets CCed and dies while trying to autoattack them?"


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Alorasence

Senior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by Lellian View Post
Yeah, I personally like burst and I always make sure that the passive is included in my combo by either charging it on minions before jumping on someone or (and I assume this is the intended way to do it) jumping on the oponent with Q-R, using W and doing my 3 autos while my shield protects me (it seems perfect cause you have 3 balls on W and you need 3 autos) and when you finish those 3 autos your Q should be back up so you can Q-R-R, I usually have to charge the passive before I have my nashor's, but once I have it I can easily do the 3 autos on the enemy.
Some people like to build her a little more tanky using roa and nashor relying more on her passive's dmg to do consistent dmg instead of bursty, that's not my thing (I go for dfg instead for more burst) but I can say for sure that both work really well with her current kit, I can't say I'd like her kit to change more into any of those two paths.

Doesn't that seem like good design to you? Having options on a champion? I am absolutely convinced that no one has used Diana's Q double R combo for a while now. She has no where near the burst damage you would need to kill someone by just doing that. This talk about her being unhealthy or difficult to balance is just noise.


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ASURA SMD

Senior Member

02-03-2014

...I took down the Solari with a Sunfire Cape...


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Alorasence

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
I suppose what many players are concerned with is that you're not going to accomplish the goal due to potential misconceptions.

Like: You haven't told us what tools you're considering giving her.

So it's a really nebulous and fearful time for her players.

"Is Vesh just going to reduce her damage, but keep her mostly the same, and she's going to be this really weak littleriven who can't burst people and gets CCed and dies while trying to autoattack them?"
The last thing you said really strikes home. And that is because, if you want to make a champion reliant on autoattacks, you have to make them durable. Very durable. Or, the autoattacks need to have crushing damage. In either case, the former 'long range burst crusader' feel that Diana executes now, is going to die.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

02-03-2014

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Originally Posted by 4sura View Post
...I took down the Solari with a Sunfire Cape...
Xanthite Diana:

Tons of sun weaponry, constantly telling the "a man a woman and a yordle walk into the sun" joke.


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Lellian

Junior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
Doesn't that seem like good design to you? Having options on a champion? I am absolutely convinced that no one has used Diana's Q double R combo for a while now. She has no where near the burst damage you would need to kill someone by just doing that. This talk about her being unhealthy or difficult to balance is just noise.
Yeah, exactly what I think, the only kind of character she can kill with QRR are the squishy carries (usually the enemy adc and maybe a support like sona) unless she really snowballed, then she can QRR everyone but any character should be able to instakill others if they snowballed.
And frankly, everyone knows that if you see a diana, avoid her Q with your life and if she misses it, kill it fire.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I still think you're misrepresenting what I've been saying a bit. At least once (and I think more) in this thread I have said I don't think she needs any dramatic changes. I think we all want a healthy and viable Diana who has fun interactive gameplay for both teams, and what I'm suggesting is that increasing the time/effort it takes to kill a target, but giving her more tools to accomplish that task, is a good way to accomplish this. Diana is a champion that should be focused on her autoattacks as well as her spells. She has that awesome moonblade and passive for a reason, and I feel that highlighting that and finding better ways to synergize her autoattacks with her spells is something that (hopefully) most Diana players would find cool.
It just feels like you are putting a little too much focus on the passive at the moment when you talk about her. I love it but it is really my killing blow, of you will, and doesn't need to be more than that to me. You might not be anti burst but everything good at burst seems to get nerfed. If I am being honest I find burst kills and death more enjoyable that DPS death.

This might sound strange but I really wish you guys would spend less time thinking about the enemy enjoyment factor when balancing champions. It is never gonna be overwhelmingly fun to lose. And honestly instead of fun they should be focused on improving. I don't think people ate as sensitive as you think though. I have a friend that I got into this game that was lime level ten and I would play with him on my main. My main is level 30 and he was 10. I destroyed those games. On a game as Jayce I stomped the enemy mid so hard and crushed the map so well he was inspired to buy and learn Jayce. People aren't as bad of sports as you guys seem to think they are.


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Afflictid

Senior Member

02-03-2014

AP version of Riven passive pls.


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Neo Cyrus

Senior Member

02-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I still think you're misrepresenting what I've been saying a bit. At least once (and I think more) in this thread I have said I don't think she needs any dramatic changes. I think we all want a healthy and viable Diana who has fun interactive gameplay for both teams, and what I'm suggesting is that increasing the time/effort it takes to kill a target, but giving her more tools to accomplish that task, is a good way to accomplish this. Diana is a champion that should be focused on her autoattacks as well as her spells. She has that awesome moonblade and passive for a reason, and I feel that highlighting that and finding better ways to synergize her autoattacks with her spells is something that (hopefully) most Diana players would find cool.
What?? It doesn't take a Diamond Diana main to know that if you increase the time it takes her to kill a target it's going to be a disaster unless her tankiness is dramatically buffed, then it's not Diana anymore.

Her damaging spells are Q and R which are 200 + 0.7 and 220 + 0.6 respectively, how could you possibly make them any lower? Those are the lowest values for any mage I can think of and we all know you're realistically not going to get off multiple Rs before you die. Not in any Diamond game I've ever seen anyway.

You're aiming to reduce her killing power in compensation for something you have in mind, the problem with that is that just rebalances her into different abysmal state, it doesn't sound like it changes the fact that she's worthless late game. You're making it sound like she's going to end up being a meat shield with minimal damage output. The horrifying part is that could actually work to bring up her win rate in Diamond up, and that makes me vomit, I can see it now, worthless tank Diana that relies on her team to do the damage while she dies repeatedly to peel for the carries.

TL;DR - All Diana mains are used to her being a carry and we want a carry, your plan sounds like she's going to be an initiation meat shield. That's not what we play, that's not what we want, that's not Diana. If that's your plan leave Diana as she is, we'd rather have her underpowered and worthless late game than be essentially deleted and replaced.

I wish this thread didn't exist, then the threat of Diana being deleted for a useless AP tank wouldn't exist.