Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
You're right. My last description was just one of many ways Diana could work (in this case with a hyper coordianted ranked team with follow-up CC). Obviously this isn't the majority of cases. In reality a more fighter-focused Diana would have a similar opening to an Assassin Diana where she waits for the tank to go in before engaging with her Q->R. The difference comes in what happens after that point.
If that's the case what's wrong with the assasin route if they are going to play the same way in a sense? Diana solves the problem herself aka just kills the big threat. As a bruiser she would be a lot more team reliant and thus less of the individual she is supposed to be.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
You're right. My last description was just one of many ways Diana could work (in this case with a hyper coordianted ranked team with follow-up CC). Obviously this isn't the majority of cases. In reality a more fighter-focused Diana would have a similar opening to an Assassin Diana where she waits for the tank to go in before engaging with her Q->R. The difference comes in what happens after that point.
Also is Parrot going to do the special picture I requested for this thread. I feel like with all this talk we could at least get some Diana drawings in here as well.


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Lesbian Diana

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
No, sorry. I'm going to be experimenting with some stuff but at the end of the day I'd rather we do it right the first time, and sometimes that means more testing and iteration than we can anticipate at the start.

edit: please know that this champion is near and dear to my heart. she's my forum avatar for a reason.
so do you have a smurf or do you just never play her in ranked games


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
If that's the case what's wrong with the assasin route if they are going to play the same way in a sense? Diana solves the problem herself aka just kills the big threat. As a bruiser she would be a lot more team reliant and thus less of the individual she is supposed to be.
It's a bit like Vesh is echoing the 'identity crisis' perhaps of Diana.

Like, fighters in League, if they go in on squishes after the tank initiates, they're pretty much either assassins (Riven) or tank-item-building-assassins-in-disguise (Vi).

They tend to have some ruinous burst, or get a ton of free damage while stacking tank items.

"No tank items, low burst" basically isn't a role in League of Legends.

Currently.

But as I said, there is a way to do it.

But that means what one cannot build in tank items, one must perhaps get in abilities.

Rather than skillfully blowing up a target, to skillfully avoid being blown up, surviving to deal sustained damage.


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Hellioning

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesbian Diana View Post
so do you have a smurf or do you just never play her in ranked games
According to his LoLking, he just doesn't play ranked that often, since all the games in his match history are ether A) ARAM or B) playing Diana in normals. Well, there's also one Vayne game, but he does seem to be a Diana main.


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Gimily

Junior Member

01-31-2014

@Vesh
and @ Maximum Jarvan
If we want diana to function in the mid lane, why not just let her assassinate people. IT not only allows her to do her job better(kill squishies) but also fits her lore more. what did she do? kill a few squishy elders that couldnt fight, really fast, and did it by herself. shes a massive loner that isn't supposed to need other people to accomplish her goal, bruisers need their ADC and APC to follow up and kill the targets their CCing. An assassin on the other hand, gets in ther and gets the job done, doesn't need other people to help them what so ever. It also just fits the meta and i know its not well represented here becasue people that want change are going to post more, but I bet the majority of Diana players want her to be able to kill squishies in a few seconds. Assassinate does not mean QRR, it means do a combination of my skills that will kill the target in say under 3 seconds. No it isn;'t leblanc level assassination, id say its on par with Zed who normally has to wait till deathmark triggers for them to die. I think that time frame of 4 seconds for killing target is leit. And i really dont want to play an Auto attack based play style when im playing an APC. sure ill do 3 autos to trigger passive once, or something, but i dont want to be jax, or tryndamere. There is a reason im playing an AP carry in the mid lane, to get a lot of gold and then kill people with my abilities. That is why its called ability power, not attack Attack power. Id just play jax if i wanted to jump to their back line and AA them to death.

What in your opinion defines a character? their passive(unless ur annie) no, its ur active abilities, lets not make diana's abilities just ok this lets u AA more so u can use ur passive. Passives are meant to supplement the game play of the champions abilities, not define their game-play. As I said above, assassinate does not mean I landed 1 skillshot u die, it means if I do my abilities correctly you will die very quickly,or you will have to take some sort of evasion that I cant respond to(aka flash after putting R on CD)

I think this could be achieved via, encouraging 1R per target (maybe decrease damage by Ron the target by 50% for 10 seconds) but after R hits, it increases teh damage they take from W, or an E with damage, or isntantly gets u a moon silver blade proc, so You dont just double R their dead, but u single R and use ur other abilities to kill

In conclusion, I think the majority of the player base even if not represented her thinks of her as an assassin. I dont want an AP champion based on AAs that doesn't really make any sense, passives should not define a champs game play, it should augment their skill set. and I think the best way to incentives a single R(to get rid of toxicity) but still allow her to assinte people, is to make an R on a moonlighted target make her other abilites deal more dmg(make E deal damage i the first palce) and/or bring ur passive proc up right away so ur next auto does a lot of extra damage(synergy with LB aswell). This would allow for out playts, aka flashes after teh first R, but still allow here to kill ppl.


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Lesbian Diana

Senior Member

01-31-2014

I still don't see how Diana has an identity crisis. There are dozens of champions with no single set role. Why is this bad? Why does a champion only have to fit one role? You're asking "what does Diana do in fights" why can't there be multiple answers?

The reason Diana is so bad in high elo is because she doesn't assassinate as hard as assassins and she can't fight as hard as fighters. (I'm assuming fighters means DPS that isn't a 'squishy' target). Would be it be somehow toxic to the game if she could do both depending on the build?


"Riot doesnt enforce a meta, we just mess with champions until they can only fit one exact role"


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Katasumai

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Senior Member

01-31-2014

I don't really build a whole ton of AP items and make her squishy. I play her like an AP Elise would be played. Honestly before that I played her as MR Shredder before the changes to a couple items and removal of an item.

I've not tried building Lich Bane though It'd be something I would try out honestly, it's a good item if you hit R then AA them.

I was playing Mid Lane ranked versus a Fizz. Easy Match up harass with Q force down his playful trickster, all in and kill.

How I decided to build was not to rush Deathcap at all but to build in way that could sustain against him while reducing his MR but still have a good amount of damage.

My resulting build was this.

Sorc Boots
Deathcap
Zhonya's Hourglass
Frozenheart (because the Armor against AD's is nice, gives you mana and ontop of that in a fight you can slow the adc you jump on.)
Abyssal Scepter (gives you a good amount of MR while reducing the enemies a little bit).

My last item was going for GA but I feel the last item is situational, often I would either build a Void Staff, Athene's Grail, Wits End or Banshee's Veil but heck I think I might throw in the Lich Bane from now on. I used to build Rod of Ages on her for the Health, AP and Mana it would provide making giving her more mana pool and more health.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimily View Post
@Vesh
and @ Maximum Jarvan
If we want diana to function in the mid lane, why not just let her assassinate people. IT not only allows her to do her job better(kill squishies) but also fits her lore more. what did she do? kill a few squishy elders that couldnt fight, really fast, and did it by herself. shes a massive loner that isn't supposed to need other people to accomplish her goal, bruisers need their ADC and APC to follow up and kill the targets their CCing. An assassin on the other hand, gets in ther and gets the job done, doesn't need other people to help them what so ever. It also just fits the meta and i know its not well represented here becasue people that want change are going to post more, but I bet the majority of Diana players want her to be able to kill squishies in a few seconds. Assassinate does not mean QRR, it means do a combination of my skills that will kill the target in say under 3 seconds. No it isn;'t leblanc level assassination, id say its on par with Zed who normally has to wait till deathmark triggers for them to die. I think that time frame of 4 seconds for killing target is leit. And i really dont want to play an Auto attack based play style when im playing an APC. sure ill do 3 autos to trigger passive once, or something, but i dont want to be jax, or tryndamere. There is a reason im playing an AP carry in the mid lane, to get a lot of gold and then kill people with my abilities. That is why its called ability power, not attack Attack power. Id just play jax if i wanted to jump to their back line and AA them to death.

What in your opinion defines a character? their passive(unless ur annie) no, its ur active abilities, lets not make diana's abilities just ok this lets u AA more so u can use ur passive. Passives are meant to supplement the game play of the champions abilities, not define their game-play. As I said above, assassinate does not mean I landed 1 skillshot u die, it means if I do my abilities correctly you will die very quickly,or you will have to take some sort of evasion that I cant respond to(aka flash after putting R on CD)

I think this could be achieved via, encouraging 1R per target (maybe decrease damage by Ron the target by 50% for 10 seconds) but after R hits, it increases teh damage they take from W, or an E with damage, or isntantly gets u a moon silver blade proc, so You dont just double R their dead, but u single R and use ur other abilities to kill

In conclusion, I think the majority of the player base even if not represented her thinks of her as an assassin. I dont want an AP champion based on AAs that doesn't really make any sense, passives should not define a champs game play, it should augment their skill set. and I think the best way to incentives a single R(to get rid of toxicity) but still allow her to assinte people, is to make an R on a moonlighted target make her other abilites deal more dmg(make E deal damage i the first palce) and/or bring ur passive proc up right away so ur next auto does a lot of extra damage(synergy with LB aswell). This would allow for out playts, aka flashes after teh first R, but still allow here to kill ppl.

I want her to be an assassin. Let me make that very clear. I have no idea why people are pushing for her to revive around her passive. Like I said a melee AP auto attack based champion doesn't work on League due to the lack of true sustain on most AP champions and the in general weak state of spell vamp. Assassin Diana is best Diana. Assassins are by far the most fun in the game to me. I truly don't understand the obsession with the fighter thing.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katasumai View Post
I don't really build a whole ton of AP items and make her squishy. I play her like an AP Elise would be played. Honestly before that I played her as MR Shredder before the changes to a couple items and removal of an item.

I've not tried building Lich Bane though It'd be something I would try out honestly, it's a good item if you hit R then AA them.

I was playing Mid Lane ranked versus a Fizz. Easy Match up harass with Q force down his playful trickster, all in and kill.

How I decided to build was not to rush Deathcap at all but to build in way that could sustain against him while reducing his MR but still have a good amount of damage.

My resulting build was this.

Sorc Boots
Deathcap
Zhonya's Hourglass
Frozenheart (because the Armor against AD's is nice, gives you mana and ontop of that in a fight you can slow the adc you jump on.)
Abyssal Scepter (gives you a good amount of MR while reducing the enemies a little bit).

My last item was going for GA but I feel the last item is situational, often I would either build a Void Staff, Athene's Grail, Wits End or Banshee's Veil but heck I think I might throw in the Lich Bane from now on. I used to build Rod of Ages on her for the Health, AP and Mana it would provide making giving her more mana pool and more health.
Yeah I do hourglass Lichbane usually for rush items. Your mid game is usually strong if you do that. Lich bane is really strong her because the second proc and her passive tend to come up at the same time and is a guaranteed kill considering the 1.43AP ratio it has if chained together properly and you have the spell blade mastery.