Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
Also, maybe another way to get Diana back into LCS:
So the issue is perhaps not at all Diana's power.

It's that Diana isn't LeBlanc. Diana isn't Akali. Diana isn't Kha'Zix, Gragas, or Darius.

Her theme and kit don't support hit and runs. They support hit and keep hitting.

She perhaps shouldn't be a bluer version of Ahri.

Which is likely why Q-R assassinations aren't favored.

They could always make her an assassin in other ways, and her kit could fit into that. (Lunar Rush as a skillshot dash, maybe.) But it may not be as open design space, or as thematically attractive.

So that's why 'AP Fighter' is for the most part the current examination.

And why low burst with potentially ramping sustained damage and pursuit might be attractive.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vortex Senpai

Senior Member

01-31-2014

IMO Diana is insanely strong. I was playing as veigar and she jumped on me and deleted me before I could even drop my stun.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fishy652

Member

01-31-2014

Diana isn't insanely strong. My suggestion in the scenario you mentioned is not to wait that long before casting your e. You should try and land your e onto her before or immediately after she fires her q, but definitely before she can dash. Of course, this only applies to post 6, as before then, veigar will just beat only diana with his range. Try not to play to aggressively after 6, if you are just sitting back and farming, it will become obvious when she is going for an all in. That is when you should stun her.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tiure

Senior Member

01-31-2014

How about if her shield made her auto attacks apply the cleaving passive for as long as it is active (with a certain guaranteed time to simulate the current orb duration)? After 3 cleaves before the timer runs out, the shield refreshes, but the cleaves keep coming.

This makes it so that she's more of a sustained damage champion and less of a bursty champion. Just a thought.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fiora All Night

Senior Member

01-31-2014

@Vesh: A problem I foresee with "fighter Diana"...

There's no AP fighter items for her to build. Full tank means she shouldn't be doing much damage and that just doesn't sound like Diana. Glass cannon but with an offense-scaling shield like Riven's makes her just as hated as Riven whenever she is good.

I guess there's Nashor's / Hourglass then tank...but isn't the AD version of that build (rough Hydra + tank or Sorc Shoes / Guise tank for Elise) sort of seen as a problem right now?

I like the idea of an AP fighter but the current itemization doesn't make me feel like the game can properly support that style of champ right now.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Argent Heretic

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
please know that this champion is near and dear to my heart. she's my forum avatar for a reason.
Something I think most all of us who posted have in common. We all love the moon lady. I think she would be happy with the amount disciples that want to bring down the sun. =p


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Argent Heretic

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiora All Night View Post
@Vesh: A problem I foresee with "fighter Diana"...

There's no AP fighter items for her to build. Full tank means she shouldn't be doing much damage and that just doesn't sound like Diana. Glass cannon but with an offense-scaling shield like Riven's makes her just as hated as Riven whenever she is good.

I guess there's Nashor's / Hourglass then tank...but isn't the AD version of that build (rough Hydra + tank or Sorc Shoes / Guise tank for Elise) sort of seen as a problem right now?

I like the idea of an AP fighter but the current itemization doesn't make me feel like the game can properly support that style of champ right now.
They could give her moonflare spellblade as a personal item.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gimily

Junior Member

01-31-2014

I just dont understand why she is getting hated for staying around to deal more damage after she deletes someone, or why we have to completely change her to an AP fighter. I bet that i am among the majority that want her to stay an assassin. If she became an AP fighter she probably wouldn't fit into mid lane very well either. And as a diana main I dont think taking her main role away, whether or not that role was intended it has been around for a year would be a very bad idea. I think she fits the mid role much better if she still holds her assassination level. Even if she would work during ane phase, people on ur team wouldnt be apply with u if u got a few kills but couldnt delete someone because ur the mid laner thats ur job

Anyway back to the why dont think her staying around to deal more dmg is bad. Think about kata, kha, and akali, all of them can stay around and kill ppl if they get fed. So diana gets fed and gets very strong because she doesn't die instantly instead of just instagibbing ppl like the other assassins do when they get fed is probably a better business model. She will still die to a well positioned ADC its not like shes invincible, Akali and kata on the other hand? just tele into te fight and murder everyone if they are 5/2/5 diana? still have to hit Q, and use my shield at a good time to not die, and even then, my later team fight dmg is def lower than a kata/kha/akali with a reset. So I think her being a bit tanky after assassinating a squishy(if she is fed) is probably more easy to deal with than most other fed assassins. Even if she is just 3/2/4 or somthign just average, i bet her post assassination threat is lower than most others in my experiance. Think about it, what are u more scared of, a kata ith a reset or a diana with all her CDs happening with a small shield?

Another thing I dont understand is why ppl think everyone does QRR that is one of her worst combos even when fed because u should be able to just kill them and use ur R to kill someone else, and if ur not fed, u will need to keep it for later in ur combo, or after a second Q. Personally, by teamfight time, im probably at double dorans, zhonyas and deatcap, then later LB and void staff. I think Lich Bane is extremely ignored for no reason. My main combo is QR-> Lich Bane->E,W->lich Bane,auto(for passive)->QR or just R if that will kill. I still think this is an assassination combo. If that is considered AP fighter style then that is fine but, ur still killing ur target in all of 4 seconds with extreme sticking power.

Finally, I understand that her passive is pretty cool, and unique but it should define her play. Yes sure work it into her build or mae sure it isnt making her imbalanced but, I think her ACTIVE ABILITIES should define her play. Yes as u saw above, I try to fit a proc into my combo, or if im fed, then i can use it after i kill one target, but its not like annie stun, it should not define her pay style. If anything that it the thing IM MOST WILLING to change, her QR mechanics, and her slight tnkyness is really unique, and makes her follow up after one assassination is more, sustained dmg, then go assassinate more ppl, like other assassins are. I understand everyone si saying well they just go away, but when have u ever seen an even KDA sed in play or LCS get 1 ll then just run away fro the fight nd do nothing? I feel like thats how ppl are treating the other assassins and that is not what the do. Anyway back to the point of her passive. I think her QR defines her pay style, their her most iconic skills, when u ask a player what diana does, they say the QR, not her passive.

those are the reasons I think her main ablity set up should stay almost exactly the same, and if u need to change her passive, but dont rebuild her abilites around her passive. Most of all Id just like a numbers tweak, but if actual changes need to happen, Q and R aare her most sacred abilites that should not change.

P.S. this is my opinion, and yes I know im one person, so take this how you will, but I definitely think most Mid mains would agree that they see more assassin dianas than anything else and that QR is what ppl think about when they think bout Diana.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
No, sorry. I'm going to be experimenting with some stuff but at the end of the day I'd rather we do it right the first time, and sometimes that means more testing and iteration than we can anticipate at the start.

edit: please know that this champion is near and dear to my heart. she's my forum avatar for a reason.
I'm not going to lie. I am highly disappointed that you are forcing the fighter change. This wierd desire of an AP bruiser makes no real sense to me but whatever. Her passive is not what I find to be the most defining thing to her. It was always the QR then the pull lastly the shield and the passive kind of just felt like a last hit mechanism. I feel like after these changes Ibwont even get to enjoy my favorite champion anymore which really sucks. I am especially worried you are going to push her too far into that realm of tanky bruiser and just alter her into a tanky Kayle that can't carry a game anymore.

I don't even see the point in playing the game if all of my favorite champs will be ruined for me. Xyph wanted to rework Jayce and that was just gonna make him completely weak where no matter how much I like him I don't see why I would pick him with the changes he proposed. Jarvan hasn't been changed but with the the fighter rework I wouldn't be surprised if he got adjusted as well.

I am not looking forward to fighter Diana because I don't even see how she is this tank everyone is talking about but I guess Inshould just give up. Luckily I am already used to major disappointments in the things I care about.

Also, Ironstylus never gave us a Diana picture for this thread.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DnimScynths

Junior Member

01-31-2014

I feel like my favorite champion is going to be butchered into some kind of ap bruiser that has no viable items to build in the current state of the game.

I just really dont understand why it's not possible to play with her numbers a bit. Vesh, you insist she assassinates too well while being a supposed unkillable beast, while i strongly disagree, is it not possible to simply lower her Q cooldown, and reduced her Q and R dmg slightly? by doing this you lenghten the time it takes for her to burst someone down, while keeping the same overall dps, it also serves to lenghten the window of possible counter-play (which, by the way, is already much shorter with many other assassins).

I don't want an ap bruiser Diana, it won't work in the current meta, with the current available items, and I feel I'm far from the only one that feels this way.