Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

First Riot Post
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Vesh

Game Designer

01-31-2014
15 of 19 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lans1ing View Post
Vesh can you please give us an ETA on her changes?
No, sorry. I'm going to be experimenting with some stuff but at the end of the day I'd rather we do it right the first time, and sometimes that means more testing and iteration than we can anticipate at the start.

edit: please know that this champion is near and dear to my heart. she's my forum avatar for a reason.


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Eskimoƒo

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Vesh!


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Sammystorm

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
snip.
Yes she is in a bad place. However she has shown that riot needs to be extremely careful with meddling with her because she is a champion that snowballs hard and if made too strong is unstopable


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AwsmDevil

Junior Member

01-31-2014

Vesh, mind if I ask for your thoughts on the invulnerability suggestion I made?


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Diana doesn't hit and run. She chases down a heretic, slays them with her blade and then goes to the next one. She doesn't jump onto one of them and run away/do nothing for 10 seconds.

Thematically I think a more fighter style fits her, but at the core I think the gameplay is what should drive any adjustments.

It should still feel great to Q->R->E->W into a fight. I just want to make sure the actions that follow that feel good to Diana and don't feel like utter bull**** to her opponents. Fighter doesn't mean she only autoattacks. It means she has tools to help her deal sustained damage but she can still have bursty moments to finish someone off or even to engage with she at the end of the day shes also a champion that scales with AP.
She basically wants to Jax people up.

But in a way rather unique and different from Jax.

And it seems like the ability to lead in with R is highly desired.

So let's say Q is her 'found an enemy' move. Hitting this should assist future strikes, but not be required, and not be her primary damage.

It should probably give a bonus of some kind to running down enemies she hits with it.

R is her "I'm here" ability. She wants to hop people with it. But for balance it shouldn't feel oppressively powerful to her target. I'd honestly say the damage would need to come way down then.

Rather than a reset, its cooldown could be reduced by however many targets she hits with her other abilities. (More enemies, more pursuit power.) A Silence could be added on, or not.

W has to keep her alive. This is tricky, because she's melee and wants to go in first. But she's not a tank. I'm being quite serious in saying that doesn't work in League of Legends. So either this or a defensive component of E needs to be very strong on initiation.

Her shield refresh mechanic is quite fun though, so perhaps the ability to keep it refreshed through using other abilities may be useful.

E is her 'no one escapes'. It's great initiation. But the problem is she's going to die if she uses it that way. Annie's going to give her a bear hug, and it may be rather unfortunate.

Some sort of damage reduction for Diana on this might help the fight starting dynamic. I suppose it could Silence everyone-- but she'll still perhaps get blammed as the game is now.

But in anycase, have some moon music: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rVPjrGT54U


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Gergosh

Senior Member

01-31-2014

@vesh is there any thought to increasing R's damage with moonlight up while also making it like pantheons W so that instead of hitting the target with it twice its more like Q R E W R (second r to a minion then the CD hits so she can't just hopscotch minions and champions) this would be making more assasiny but the same principle could be for a fighter Diana just lower R's damage but give her that escape to minions so her isn't so dive and die for a kill.


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IlyaK1986

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Diana doesn't hit and run. She chases down a heretic, slays them with her blade and then goes to the next one. She doesn't jump onto one of them and run away/do nothing for 10 seconds.

Thematically I think a more fighter style fits her, but at the core I think the gameplay is what should drive any adjustments.

It should still feel great to Q->R->E->W into a fight. I just want to make sure the actions that follow that feel good to Diana and don't feel like utter bull**** to her opponents. Fighter doesn't mean she only autoattacks. It means she has tools to help her deal sustained damage but she can still have bursty moments to finish someone off or even to engage with she at the end of the day shes also a champion that scales with AP.
I think compared to some of the more braindead champs such as Mundo, Gragas, Kassadin, etc..., Diana really won't feel like BS, especially given who else sees LCS play.

Leblanc: oh look, I can pop you from a mile away and get away.
Khazix: oh, you guys aren't completely clumped up? I'll just delete someone and be on my merry way.
Annie/Leona+Jinx: oh look, you get immobilized and focused into the abyss.
Vi: oh look, I have a click-lock uber-CC on you from a mile away, and bruiser damage on top of it (don't nerf Vi).
Gragas: I stall your pushes and blow your team apart in teamfights while having an easy escape (never mind that I'm a giant fatso who's not supposed to be able to hop over cliffs!).

Diana: ummm...I gapclose on you and do some AP damage?

Wat?

The idea that someone building offense shouldn't be able to stuff the squishiest characters in the game (supports and ADCs) to me, is simply BS. If you build completely squishy, and get caught out by a champion with an offensively-oriented rotation and a reusable gap closer...

YOU SHOULD BE DEAD.

Not because "omg imba" but because you have a squishy champion for which range and teammates are your only defenses. If you have neither of those, why are you complaining when someone gets the jump-in on you? A melee champion is *supposed* to wipe the floor with a ranged champion, because a melee has to take more *risk* than a ranged champion.

You know, risk vs. reward?

Also, maybe another way to get Diana back into LCS:

Add some damage to moonfall? I.E. 150-250 + .5 AP?


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Neo Cyrus

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
No, sorry. I'm going to be experimenting with some stuff but at the end of the day I'd rather we do it right the first time, and sometimes that means more testing and iteration than we can anticipate at the start.

edit: please know that this champion is near and dear to my heart. she's my forum avatar for a reason.
I think it's safe to say most of us trust you on this. I just hope the end result is still very similar in terms of style. That and whatever changes you make I hope you keep in mind how severely her "tankiness" is overrated especially considering unlike any other mage she's stuck point blank in front of the enemy with no way out.

The "tankiness" is not that impressive even compared to other mages who don't need to be in melee range... oh say... Gragas who has 18% damage reduction for restoring his mana and it lasts a hell of a lot longer than Diana's shield.

Like I was saying the fun style is what made me stick with playing Diana... it doesn't exactly have a stellar win rate even as low as Gold Elo, 45%-ish average. Actually it dropped to 44.7% the day of the Lunar skin release, ha, prediction correct, I expect it to go lower though.


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Sammystorm

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Diana doesn't hit and run. She chases down a heretic, slays them with her blade and then goes to the next one. She doesn't jump onto one of them and run away/do nothing for 10 seconds.

Thematically I think a more fighter style fits her, but at the core I think the gameplay is what should drive any adjustments.

It should still feel great to Q->R->E->W into a fight. I just want to make sure the actions that follow that feel good to Diana and don't feel like utter bull**** to her opponents. Fighter doesn't mean she only autoattacks. It means she has tools to help her deal sustained damage but she can still have bursty moments to finish someone off or even to engage with she at the end of the day shes also a champion that scales with AP.
When I first saw diana I was like "Oh cool a ap bruiser". That was the idea that I had in my head. That idea was killed by players much better then me building her like a assassin. So I for one would love to see her turned into a fighter.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

01-31-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
No, sorry. I'm going to be experimenting with some stuff but at the end of the day I'd rather we do it right the first time, and sometimes that means more testing and iteration than we can anticipate at the start.

edit: please know that this champion is near and dear to my heart. she's my forum avatar for a reason.
whatever you do please make her moonfall viable! Thanks Vesh.