Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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ArmySquirrel

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
Diana really can't delete someone in the way you are implying. She might have been able to at one point, but she can't now. Unless she's obscenely far ahead.
That is what we're saying. The trouble is she does more than just Assassin, she also kind of does Fighter. However, she presently neither does Assassin nor Fighter very well, and we're discussing on if she needs her power shifted from one role to the other to make her good at it at the expense of the other. The concern is that a simple buff would be too much on her as it would probably buff both aspects, and she can't do both well without leading to the same problems as before. That just means she ends up assassinating the primary damage dealer and then turning around and fighting the rest of the enemy team toe to toe.


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Teys0

Junior Member

01-30-2014

Two things...

First I want to address a tweak idea that might be interesting or helpful. What if instead of completely resetting her ult when she successfully QR's, it reduced R's cooldown? Then she would have to sit and fight for a little bit before getting to R again. This would make the QR interaction a bit more healthy I think. It could even work with or compliment Super Explosion's suggestions of spell weaving and moonlight stacks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
This is something I've recommended a bit:

Taking the power out of the binary Q-R combo, and using Lunar Rush perhaps more as a mobility tool.

Potentially with different 'Brand-like' combos interwoven with the ability to reset Lunar Rush using them.

So Diana comes off as this tenacious and dogged fighter with a variety of tools perhaps through 'building' combos.

There is always the potential as well to allow itemization variance, such that she can build to be more of an assassin or more of a fighter.

And as well, there is room for 'transition gameplay', where she can start off a teamfight (for example) in 'fighter mode', but through the successful completion of combos ramp up her damage to that of an assassin...
Second I want to address the thematic issue people keep bringing up about Diana and Leona being opposites. Leona (seems to me) is a lot more like an assassin than people seem to think. Out of all the supports and tanks, she's the one I think of when I want to play an assassin but get forced into a support role. You dive onto an enemy and make sure they die (with the help of a teammate). It is kind of similar to the current QRR Diana, minus the fact that you can take somebody out by yourself with Diana. Just saying.


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LefttenantSHEEP

Junior Member

01-30-2014

You could make a dramatic change too Lunar Rush by allowing the ability dash to allied champions. This works well with Q-R in with an escape only viable if your backed up in a team fight and Q-R-R leaves you vulnerable if the second dash isn't an escape.
This would open options too makes plays such as Q-R-E-R(allied) where you jump in, pull them together and then jump out. This would make brawls more common place.


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Zevandir

Junior Member

01-30-2014

Hey guys,

It seems that a pretty strong/classic top-lane bruiser/fighter combo is a damage ability, a stun, a shield, and some kind of utility ultimate.

Though Diana is clearly not a true top-lane bruiser, the idea is one that could possibly be applied to help her out a little bit with the W issue.

Her passive is super, but the fact that the only real reason to auto-attack on Diana is to proc that passive is kinda annoying, and TBH, she's my fave champ too and I'd love the choice to build AD/Tanky occasionally, but really can't because all of her abilities (minus E) rely too much on AP, so why not;

Shift the focus more to auto-attacks, and rework the W entirely to be an auto-attack empowering ability, with a stun similiar to Leona, or damage such as Sion, lifesteal like Lee Sin, there are loads of possibilities and all could help to rework her in the sort of fighter direction.

Adverse to this is a possible rework to the W that shifts her more towards the assassin path, like someone said earlier remove the shield and add something else, even maybe pure damage or such.

Reading through this topic is really fab to see so many other people who love Diana, and it kinda comes to the point that W is actually super strong, but possibly one of the main issues that shifts her away from a clearly defined role, and throws ambiguity into the mix.

Though I gotta say, I love her variability, a champ that can play three lanes pretty well (though not the best) is super fab, maybe allowing her abilities to scale with AD and changing the W would allow the choice of Assassin or Fighter, and yet allow each to be seperately more powerful than they are currently, and instead of 1 slightly confused role, two SEPERATE and OPTIONAL roles, and the choice between them.

Just my two cents, but lets all high-five for Diana anyway


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AwsmDevil

Junior Member

01-30-2014

Someone earlier suggested having her E make her invulnerable if it hit someone, but what if it was her R(Lunar Rush) that did that? You could just pull out most of the damage and leave in the reset. Now she survives, doesn't burst 100-0 with the low interaction Q>R>R, can still build damage, and can actually initiate. If it doesn't let her do enough in combat, you might have to up the values on her other stuff to compensate, most likely her passive since it does the most sustained damage. If it acts like Kayle's ult you could still cc her.

You could receive 1 second if they had moonlight on them and .5 for normal activations. This could be a really nice fix. Kinda like how Poppy is tanky without building tanky. It rewards her for doing what she already has the kit to do. Diana would just be able to survive stuff.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

01-30-2014
12 of 19 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by zevandir View Post
just my two cents, but lets all high-five for diana anyway
^5

...internet five.


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Nine Ravens

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
Stealth in a world without Oracle's Elixir vs. a shield.

Main source of damage is a targeted point and click vs. skillshot.

Mana vs. Energy.

They do similar things. They are not on equal footing in terms of game health.

I'm just never going to agree with you there.
I didn't say they were equal, but they have the same core issues. Both are able to initiate on and follow targets over large distances using their multi-use gap-closing ultimates, even if the target uses a dash of their own. These dashes are not evadable since they're point-and-click. Yes Diana's reset does depend on hitting her skillshot first, but once that happens it plays out pretty much the same.

If Diana/Akali is strong enough to kill you in one rotation you are going to die with very little to be done about it. On the other hand if they're not strong enough they struggle to accomplish anything at all since a lot of their survivability is tied to their offensive stats (Diana's AP scaling shield, Akali's spellvamp.)


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Alorasence

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmySquirrel View Post
That is what we're saying. The trouble is she does more than just Assassin, she also kind of does Fighter. However, she presently neither does Assassin nor Fighter very well, and we're discussing on if she needs her power shifted from one role to the other to make her good at it at the expense of the other. The concern is that a simple buff would be too much on her as it would probably buff both aspects, and she can't do both well without leading to the same problems as before. That just means she ends up assassinating the primary damage dealer and then turning around and fighting the rest of the enemy team toe to toe.
Rengar is a fighter whose also sort of an assassin. And Jayce is a mage/marksman, but also kind of a fighter. Fiora is a fighter but also a bit of an assassin. Zyra is a mage, but also occassionally a support. Yasuo is a fighter, but also kind of an assassin. Cho'gath is a tank, but also a mage of sorts. Ezreal is an adc, but capable of being a mage. Quinn is an adc, but also a fighter.....

Do you see where I am going with this?

IF you decide that a champion cannot perform as a fusion of multiple purposes, than you have to be consistent with your opinion on that.

I don't want to play a game with sharp distinctions between every champion, forcing them into the same role every time with the same build every time. This pattern is appropriate for some champions. I don't think it is for all champions and I don't think it should be for all champions.

Unless you are willing to change 50+ champions via strictly designating what their purpose is. And limiting that purpose to a single position, than I think your arugment is invalid.

I want Diana to be playable in certain matchups, and succeed wildly in others. I want her to be playable in an LCS match in a situation outside of a direct counterpick. I want her Diamond win rate to be higher than a 43 percent average. I want her buffed.


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Monsieur Teemo

Junior Member

01-30-2014

Hey morello, I have a suggestion.

If you wanted to repurpose diana into a more tanky fighter initiator How about keep the q as is

have her w scale off of another source.

And then have her r do no damage and rather either give her another shield or increase her attack speed?

She loses the annoying q r r burst keeps the ability to stick to targets and becomes more tanky better passive synergy as a result.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
^5

...internet five.
I have 1200 games on Diana on ice server and been playing her since she came out even after all the nerfs. I love the new skin, it really makes her a goddess. Thank you for that.