Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Pandaris

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
yeah if people look closely I said in the OP that she could use some tweaks in current form and be just fine and changing her kit should be a last resort and put in my two cents if they feel they absolutely have to do it how I would like to see it go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lans1ing View Post
All you and I asked for are some minor buffs but instead he rants about her being "too tanky" while doing too much damage. The simplicity of this situation is that he is only looking it on the paper and he is yet to play her in higher elos and find the same issue that we see. We don't want her kit to change not by one bit and for those who are constanly posting changes to her kit on this thread need to stop because we love Diana for who she not for who she could be. The fact we can have a choice to make her tanky or assassin is what we appreciate about this champion. We don't want her kit to change, we want only numbers adjusted on it and that was the whole point of this thread. Way to derail another thread by trying to change her kit.

the problem is Diana did have slightly higher numbers, and she was really really powerful.

As a Diana lover myself im aware that if i want to see her be good again ( shes ok atm, just not high tier) that i am going to have to make concessions such as losing some tankiness for more damage or possibly an escape, or if i want her to be able to "fight better" im going to have to give up some of her "potential damage" even if diana never actually q rr in the general flow of things ( you still do it) you cant buff her ult without considering it because its actually buffing it twice and if qrr does become too strong it does lack counterplay.

So come to the table with concessions or be sent packing because thats what needs to happen.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
yeah if people look closely I said in the OP that she could use some tweaks in current form and be just fine and changing her kit should be a last resort and put in my two cents if they feel they absolutely have to do it how I would like to see it go.
There is not denying that Riot balances this game around "pro players" and what we see in LCS. Every champion that gets played in LCS gets nerfed although Oriana has been a big exception. Diana falls into the same nerf wagon due to LCS. That is the reason I been put of this game so much in past year. But I still play this game because of how much I enjoy playing Diana. If they tweak her kit for better or worse I wouldn't come back. But I think we shouldn't expect any changes to her for at least another year. The reason i say this because look at rengar, they been doing a kit rework on him for the past year but no results has been shown.
Two threads were about Diana and her state in both of which people are now putting in their idea of changing her kit to completely something different e.g scaling her shield though hp etc, or having no shield or having no R rest. Please just stop with the kit changing ideas. She doesn't need a rework. All she needs is a small buff on her q and e to put her back in "normal state". But as i said before i don't see this happening anytime soon.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by irott View Post
Can anyone explain how hourglass "feels good" on Diana? I mean I understand hOw how a fiddle or morgana uses the item for some awesome plays but it seems like most AP champs just use it to prevent dying.

It would be nice if seekers armguard had an alternate build path.
I agree with you on that alternate build path for seekers but getting a QRWE Lich Bane empowered AA off and then using hourglass allows you to force the ADC out of combat and then when you come out you justt pop the wanker and call it good. It is pretty much a guaranteed kill.


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plusmayhem

Junior Member

01-30-2014

On my smurf, have been playing since s2 and Diana is my favorite character and have played her since her release and through her high and low points.

Assassin Diana is the only 'real' Diana, DPS Diana doesn't really work due to how her shield and passive scale (with AP) and she is outclassed by others due to this.

Diana to become relevant again in mid and jungle, riot just needs to revert the last Q and W nerfs

Return the base damage on her Q to 230 (rank 5)
Return the base damage on her shield to 240 (rank 5)
Return the scaling of shield strength to .45

Because of Dianas AP scaling the she would become more relevant in mid and jungle(easier time clearing waves and can soak a little more damage)

To prevent her becoming what a lot of people deemed to strong riot could tweak her shield so when the orbs detonate and the shield is reapplied and refreshed, the refreshing of the shield scales with ARMOR, MR and/or health.

This shield tweak stops Diana becoming too tanky when building assassin but also gives her some survivability, but also buffs bruiser/DPS Diana due to them building (more?) resistances or health. So the second shield would act similarly to Jax ultimate

@VESH


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lans1ing View Post
There is not denying that Riot balances this game around "pro players" and what we see in LCS. Every champion that gets played in LCS gets nerfed although Oriana has been a big exception. Diana falls into the same nerf wagon due to LCS. That is the reason I been put of this game so much in past year. But I still play this game because of how much I enjoy playing Diana. If they tweak her kit for better or worse I wouldn't come back. But I think we shouldn't expect any changes to her for at least another year. The reason i say this because look at rengar, they been doing a kit rework on him for the past year but no results has been shown.
Two threads were about Diana and her state in both of which people are now putting in their idea of changing her kit to completely something different e.g scaling her shield though hp etc, or having no shield or having no R rest. Please just stop with the kit changing ideas. She doesn't need a rework. All she needs is a small buff on her q and e to put her back in "normal state". But as i said before i don't see this happening anytime soon.
That is what I find so crazy about it all. If you watch the spring split and All star games she was largely ignored and only a few people really played her and even the games she was in she never got out of hand. They could honestly revert the last set of nerfs and she would be fine. That is really all I want.


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ArmySquirrel

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre Gadget View Post
Maybe something to look into is changing how the moonlight proc works. The reset idea is great, but since you think one of her issues is q-r-r maybe it needs to be taken out? What if the moonlight proc did damage instead?
That takes out some of the plays that can be done with the ult refresh, and pretty much destroys her sticking capability against other champions with mobility. While I agree this is the crux of the problem, removing the refresh guts the fun part of it, too. One example would be the Q-R to an enemy minion, then R past to the target you're chasing down.

I also really don't think it'll help the real problem, which is the up front damage. A better solution might be to let an ult onto non-Moonlit critters simply do half normal damage. It would preserve the gameplay around the ult refreshes, let her keep the sustained damage through Q-R refreshes, and only nerf the assassination potential. I feel it was meant to have the decision point of "Do I wait for Q to come off cooldown to ult again, or should I just ult again now?" Admittedly this turned into a bit of "Can I just ult again now to finish the target off?", but I think it would be nice if the question became more of a positioning one rather than a damage one, like "Should I ult again now to stay stuck to the target for the passive or should I wait for the Q to get a refresh and extra damage?"

Honestly though, to me the ult refresh is too much a key part of Diana's kit identity to be simply removed. I'd be upset if it were removed completely.


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AmericanCyclone

Senior Member

01-30-2014

I'm a Diana player, she's honestly the only champ I feel like I REALLY like. She's the only champ I was super hyped for the release on.

I feel like assassin Diana is the only real way to play her. Honestly, if her shield is thought to be an issue, then I'd like it to be removed. Make her W like Leona's. Make it just a giant orb around her that blows up when you hit someone with ult or are close. Remove the shield. I honestly only use W for the damage anyways, the shield is just a bonus IMO.

I would really be upset if she gets the rework or what have you. Also, please make it so she can actually jungle again. I miss jungle Diana so much.


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Alorasence

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
That is what I find so crazy about it all. If you watch the spring split and All star games she was largely ignored and only a few people really played her and even the games she was in she never got out of hand. They could honestly revert the last set of nerfs and she would be fine. That is really all I want.
That's what I'm saying.

Diana was considered a design masterpiece for a very long time. Literally within the last few months, people have decided she has no counterplay. I retain that she is one of the most well designed champions in this game.

She is slightly undertuned. There is a medium between what she was and what she is. That medium is where I want her to be.

Think of all the horrendously toxic designs and champions in this game. Ones Morello himself has referrred to as poorly designed. Does Diana really belong in the Akali, Talon, Irelia, Kassadin, camp?

I'm just saying, that if Rioters really are aiming to crack down at "counterplay" issues in the game, Diana shouldn't even be on a list like that. There are bigger fish to fry.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
That's what I'm saying.

Diana was considered a design masterpiece for a very long time. Literally within the last few months, people have decided she has no counterplay. I retain that she is one of the most well designed champions in this game.

She is slightly undertuned. There is a medium between what she was and what she is. That medium is where I want her to be.

Think of all the horrendously toxic designs and champions in this game. Ones Morello himself has referrred to as poorly designed. Does Diana really belong in the Akali, Talon, Irelia, Kassadin, camp?

I'm just saying, that if Rioters really are aiming to crack down at "counterplay" issues in the game, Diana shouldn't even be on a list like that. There are bigger fish to fry.
So true. I would also like to mention any AP champion with a shield has one that scales off of AP and damage abilities that scale off of AP. Also someone pointed out that the shield is usually used as a damage source. That is so true. When I am combo diving someone I don't expect the shield to do much but rather I try to get all the orb damage off that I can. It is pretty low priority. The survivabilty only matters in team fights. It doesn't matter for picks.


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ArmySquirrel

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandaris View Post
Use an Escape: Why is this ignored? If Diana lands a Q and you're playing ANY of the many adc's with an escape you can very quickly escape and if you don't have an escape and you really need to get away flash.
A smart Diana will save the refreshed ult for when the ADC inevitably uses their escape, rather than blow it immediately. The only exception is if the refreshed ult will kill the ADC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandaris View Post
Assassin (give her an escape)
It's a concept thing, that's why the ongoing wish to see her as an AP fighter. There are a number of posts from IronStylus on this. She is envisioned on something of a martyr type, and has no standard escape or de-aggro because she goes down fighting. It is also meant to mirror Leona's own lack of a true escape, and make them both all-in.

I feel she should be an AP fighter as well, but I do see that it could be a bit more work. She just needs to have less up front damage somehow, but doing so does create some conundrums. Basically the only way to really do it with her current kit is to move a fair chunk of power into her passive to entice sustained attack rather than instant burst.