Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Hyrum Graff

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valadeya Unicorn View Post
I think everyone will agree diana is a very nice champion in term of flavor.

The sad part is, as most people will agree, her tankiness scaling with AP is very toxic because it remove counter-play.

But as a whole, I really think we need to keep her as an assassin, mostly because its more fun to play her as such at the moment, but also because the game already has a lot of champion with various themes that work perfectly well as bruiser.

At the same time, her kit is , in concept, very similar to the one Akali is using, and would benefit tremendously from getting some very ditinctive element added to it.

So here is what I think could be done to improve her kit , make it more flavorful and distinctive, and also promote her to being an dedicated assassin:

Initial word : the part that crucially need rework to make her a true assassin is her pale cascade, its the part of her kit that his currently making her very hard to balance and that would benefit most from a rework


Passive:
Change it slightly to improve the damage of the third strike but can remain the same

Crescent strike : No change except maybe lowering the mana cost early level slightly because while being relatively easy to land, its also will be quite necessary as a last hitting tool in the early levels because she get more squishy

W : Pale cascade :

This one I would change completely to make her more unique, flavorful, while partly keeping the orbiting orbs we love so much

First of all, it doesn't give a shield initially. but instead it put a marker on the ground were Diana is standing, it could resemble a black spot with a quarter crescent of the moon, and at same time make the 3 familiar orb appear around diana.

The second part is when the orbiting orb get in contact with a target, they deal a slighly higher amount of damage to champion (compared to current values) and increase the size of the moon on the ground (going from 1st quarter intially to half, three quarter and Full moon)

And the third part is when reactivated it make diana teleport back that spot and give her back health based on the status of the Moon symbol (fixed amount that is decreased if the moon isn't full value going from 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% at full moon), this way it could be used as a sustain tool in lane but would be very inefficient if not used aggressively.


This interaction would be unique but similar to that of other champion (leblanc) , scaling in level can easily be tuned to fixed value of health (with AP scaling improving the % of the moon tracker like 35,70,105,140 with very high amount of AP). And also give a big counter play, when she is in ... put everything on her and try to avoid letting her teleport back with a full moon (with CC like a stun, the duration after the maximum status is reach could be very limited in time (3 sec for exemple) forcing her to decide, does she goes back to her initial point to escape and heal or stay and keep pushing

E : unchanged feel unique and let her stick to target

R : Instead of letting her us it again by removing the cooldown from moonfall, instead, let it do more damage, and reduce cooldown on consumption of the moonfall debuff , this reducing her mobility from her ultimate but considering her W become a mobility tool too its only fair to even things out.


I know this is a long read so

TLR : change pale cascade (W) not a shield, instead a very flavorful escape tool that rewards player on orb activation and sticking a much as possible without dying before using it as an escape

Tune everything else so she doesn't have too much mobility (double R removed) and can still be used as a jungler because of the new interaction added in the W
I'm not sure if I like this or not. I think that the skill conditional double ult is one of the unique things about Diana that makes her great, and would be sad to see it go. That said, some sustain would surely be welcome. Though of course it would need to be kept in check so she can't repeatedly w->q->r->e->w in and out of the enemy team, dealing good damage while healing for any damage taken.

I'm also not sure that I like giving Diana an escape. IMO, while it can sometimes be frustrating, having no escape makes the choice to commit all that more exciting. If I wanted an LeBlanc mechanic, I'd play her.


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bonggasm420

Junior Member

01-30-2014

I don't know if it has been suggested... what if you changed Diana's passive to an on-hit effect and her ult to proc on-hit effects? This opens up much more egaging game play with Diana's kit, because this makes her damage less reliant on her Q hitting and makes her passive more core to her game play.

Making Diana's ult proc on-hit effects would give her more options for playstyles because of the increased possible itemization. When building lich bane she has amazing burst and could easily burn down a squishy, preserving her midlane-bursty-assasin playstyle; however, building either a triforce or Iceborn would allow her tobe played as more of a bruiser with respectable burst, giving her many options as for a fighter playstyle.

This might mean she has to take some base damage nerfs to her R to compensate for the potential of adding passive and R, not to mention lich/tri/iceborn/nashors/wits/ect.

another thing is her E is just such a weak spell you get almost no benifit from putting skill points into it. why not move her att sp steroid there and make it scale? this will make her fall off less late game without gutting her kit.

this change will mean that her numbers will require tweaking, but it will preserve her kit.

I have a few more ideas but these are the only ones i can explain my reasoning for


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Best Morg

Junior Member

01-30-2014

I'd rather you give her something to increase her roll as an assassin, than take away her preferred playstyle. Whether that is an escape, or a psuedo-escape, like Akali's.

Also, are we seeing an unkillable Diana due to her shield after she assassinates people right now? The only way I reach that status on her currently is if my team is insanely ahead, and kills the rest of their team while I zhonyas, or if I build GA- an Item with a highcost to my damage. You're talking about her shield as if this is pre-nerf Diana I feel. If you ask any high level player her shield is incredibly weak right now.


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Argent Heretic

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolféran Maximus View Post
I would like to thank OP for making this thread.
I'm pleased in seeing Diana being spoken again.
She was quite forgotten in my honest opinion.
I will be waiting patiently for Riot's Balance Team to work on Diana and see what happens afterwards...
I am honestly scared and afraid of what riot is going to do to her. I feel like they are just going to spay(i.e. she can no longer have little lunari disciples of her own in case your wondering) her again and ruin everything that i love about her, theme and all. I dont quite know the direction they are going to take so i just hope they are thinking critically here and actually look at the issue and fix it accordingly instead of pulling out the nerf bat creating mayhem while leaving the buffing cloth gathering dust.


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Better Varus

Junior Member

01-30-2014

I personally like the way Diana is now.........I love Diana. Been playing this game for almost 3 years and I've seen some hard nerfs on Diana....now literally rework on Diana?


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
It really does feel that way...
All you and I asked for are some minor buffs but instead he rants about her being "too tanky" while doing too much damage. The simplicity of this situation is that he is only looking it on the paper and he is yet to play her in higher elos and find the same issue that we see. We don't want her kit to change not by one bit and for those who are constanly posting changes to her kit on this thread need to stop because we love Diana for who she not for who she could be. The fact we can have a choice to make her tanky or assassin is what we appreciate about this champion. We don't want her kit to change, we want only numbers adjusted on it and that was the whole point of this thread. Way to derail another thread by trying to change her kit.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lans1ing View Post
All you and I asked for are some minor buffs but instead he rants about her being "too tanky" while doing too much damage. The simplicity of this situation is that he is only looking it on the paper and he is yet to play her in higher elos and find the same issue that we see. We don't want her kit to change not by one bit and for those who are constanly posting changes to her kit on this thread need to stop because we love Diana for who she not for who she could be. The fact we can have a choice to make her tanky or assassin is what we appreciate about this champion. We don't want her kit to change, we want only numbers adjusted on it and that was the whole point of this thread. Way to derail another thread by trying to change her kit.
yeah if people look closely I said in the OP that she could use some tweaks in current form and be just fine and changing her kit should be a last resort and put in my two cents if they feel they absolutely have to do it how I would like to see it go.


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irott

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Can anyone explain how hourglass "feels good" on Diana? I mean I understand hOw how a fiddle or morgana uses the item for some awesome plays but it seems like most AP champs just use it to prevent dying.

It would be nice if seekers armguard had an alternate build path.


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Pandaris

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Lets be honest with ourselves here... Diana CANNOT reasonably 100-0 carries at any point in the game , there is ALWAYS room for counter play vs a Diana, I don't know why there seems to be an insistence that she has no counter play except dodging her Q that's like saying gragas dosn't have counterplay from dodging his barrels and it hurts Diana even more than it hurts him...

list of ways to counter play a Diana:

Dodge Q:I cant stress this enough if she cant land Q she cant go in and loses ~18.5% of her damage (actually more if you assume can no longer double r)

Use an Escape: Why is this ignored? If Diana lands a Q and you're playing ANY of the many adc's with an escape you can very quickly escape and if you don't have an escape and you really need to get away flash.

Be prepared!: Diana on the other team? what peel, stuns , knock ups, exhaust, BARRIER (every adc has it now....) does your team have?

Lets be realistic, yes Diana does have the burst "POTENTIAL" to 100-0 adc's she does 1100+(310% AP) on a full double r burst, but that leaves her escape-less and is generally a bad choice overall.

with the average ADC hp of "AVERAGE HP: 1868" she needs about 250 AP with a DFG to "100-0" a carry and that's not factoring masteries so the numbers might be slightly off. but this is ALSO assuming that the enemy adc built 0 MR outside of runes so a simple negatron cloak would boost the required AP up for "100-0" quite a bit.

But lets look at the cost of all this "power" she has no escape she gets a shield that lets not take it for more than it is... measly, it wouldnt even survive single auto attack from an adc... which speaking of adc's she has a pissed off one standing two inches in front of her if she failed to kill/force them away.

Where am i going with thus?

Diana is in an "ok" but weaker state atm, obviously i understand the problems with just pumping more power into her kit, she has the "numbers" just not the mechanics to be super good atm.

What she needs either an escape and become a true assassin, or better base attackspeed/scaling methods

Assassin (give her an escape) : Remove the Double proc on shield possibly remove the shield altogether and change it to

Pale Cascade: Diana calls upon the power of the moon marking the ground and creating three spheres that orbit her for up to 5 seconds. The spheres detonate on contact with an enemy unit, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies.

If all 3 spheres detonate Diana may return to the marked location.

There you solve her identity crisis, she no longer has a shield and she can escape from a fight with clear counter play...( there is a giant glowing mark on the ground)

AP fighter : If you insist on making her a fighter it'll require more work

She needs higher base attackspeed to actually utilize her passive, she will need her shield to be better (possibly taking a note from the ability to scale with AS as suggested by other people),and finally she will need a nerf on the damage of her ultimate damage to shift her away from the assassin paradigm


Finally something both kits could benefit from are e changes its boring sure it looks cool, and actually is pretty good, but from an assassin standpoint its point is moot and from a fighter standpoint with nerfed burst burst power it could have more power attached to it

For example on the assassin idea still remove the shield from w but allow e to be double cast where e places a marker on the ground if cast again within 5 seconds Diana teleports back to the center of it pulling targets to its center if she was still within the mark.

if you decided to make her a fighter e could remain relatively the same but possibly apply moonlight to the targets (remember ult damage was nerfed)


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by B33NIE View Post
I personally like the way Diana is now.........I love Diana. Been playing this game for almost 3 years and I've seen some hard nerfs on Diana....now literally rework on Diana?
Yeah really I just want minor buffs to her current kit and only put in kit changes to say how I would like it to go if it truly had to be that way.