Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

First Riot Post
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lnzane

Senior Member

01-30-2014

http://puu.sh/6DTJw

:/


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zitchy14

Senior Member

01-30-2014

>Shields scaling off of offensive stats is bad

Meanwhile
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Argent Heretic

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by zitchy14 View Post
>Shields scaling off of offensive stats is bad

Meanwhile
Attachment 887097
Ikr completely hypocritical that Diana is *****ed about having a shield that scales off of ap while Riven has basically the exact same thing by building AD save the minimal damage Diana's does and Riven's dash. I mean yeah Rivens shield did get nerfed a little recently but not spayed like Diana's was.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by datNeo View Post
This hurt my inside beating organ.


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invincible13matt

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Senior Member

01-30-2014

If the Q->R->R play pattern is detrimental, how about a slight alteration to its execution?

What if, instead of a full reset, R's cooldown is set equal to Q's when it hits a target affected by Moonlight?


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Jancarius

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Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible13matt View Post
If the Q->R->R play pattern is detrimental, how about a slight alteration to its execution?

What if, instead of a full reset, R's cooldown is set equal to Q's when it hits a target affected by Moonlight?
Eww. So then she wouldn't have any burst, would you buff R and E range, and buff the ratios ro make up for it?


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Caldros

Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
(Part of the reason why the Q being so reliable isn't very good is because it enables her to go R->R right afterward extremely reliably to just kill someone)
Wouldn't the solution be to change how R works? Her ult could require the target to be marked by Q before she can use it, thus gating it to Q's cooldown. Alternatively, change the effect of landing Q+R combo to be a reduction in R's cooldown instead of a reset?


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PatentlyWillton

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
The CC argument doesn't actually hold up.

Akali has a stealth shroud that slows also doubles as escape tool

Talon as an AOE slow/poke and a slience. He has stealth which can help him escape.

Kassadin has an AoE slow and silence and Riftwalk

LeBlanc has a silence a slow and a root. And her passive for escaping as well as mobility through W.

Khazix has two slows And stealth for escape with a movement speed buff as well as leap

Zed has a slow and teleporting to shadows for blinking and escape

Fizz has an AoE nuke slow plus interrupt. Also I think his troll pole slows but can't swear to it. His pole also helps him escape.

Ahri has a taunt and dashes to help escape.

Eve has a slow on her ultimate. And a movement speed buff to help her escape.

All assasins have at least some CC. This is a delusion that is all throughout our community for some reason but they all have something. Ironically the one with thee most is ranged.
That does not answer my question. Who among the champions you mentioned has a move-block ability? Who has an ability that either knocks up or repositions the enemy? I'm not talking about slows, roots, or abilities that make one untargettable. Those are not move-block abilities.

A move-block ability is the most powerful type of CC in the game, largely because a move-block cannot be mitigated by Tenacity, and abilities that execute a move-block are typically reserved for fighters, tanks, and supports. Malphite's Unstoppable Force, Nautilus's Dredge Line and Depth Charge, Orianna's Shockwave, Alistar's Pulverize and Headbutt, Blitzcrank's Rocket Grab and Power Fist and Thresh's Death Sentence and Flay, to name a few examples, are far more powerful than the measly slows you mention above.

The only assassin you mention that has such an ability is Fizz with his ult (the shark briefly knocks up any champ in the circle), which has a significant cooldown. No other assassin has such an ability, let alone such an ability on a short cooldown. (Ahri's Charm does not count because it can be mitigated by Tenacity.)

But Diana has such an ability: Moonfall. And not only does Moonfall reposition multiple enemies; it also slows them. This is a quintessential tank ability, yet people want to say she's closer to an assassin. Why should an assassin have such a powerful ability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
Now look at Dian with her backline dive tactic and no escape or stealth to even make it a bit easier. She got a shield so that she would not blow up immediately sue to the fact that once she goes in she has to stay in. She got a small pull back because if they didn't she would always have to double R or have to have a slow or wrun attached to it to make sure the person couldn't just walk away every time. Her whole kit is designed to dive the back line and live long enough to kill the person and then use hourglass and hope her team is backing her up by now. Sorry they actually had a good idea with making her this way so that she wouldn't be cookie cutter but now they regret it and don't like where she is. Assassins can have cc and survivabilty especially of the only escape they have is reliant on landing a skill shot on a jungle camp to get away or stray minions.
If Diana's Moonfall was designed to avoid having "to double R or have to have a slow or wrun attached to it to make sure the person couldn't just walk away every time," then why is it an AoE reposition? Why not a single-target reposition? Why give Diana the ability to pull back multiple champions if her goal is to just dispatch a single target, as is typical of assassins?

I'm fine with Riot making unique champions, but when a champion's identity becomes so muddled that they have to be nerfed in order to accommodate players who want the champion to serve multiple purposes at once, there's a problem.


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Alorasence

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatentlyWillton View Post
Name one assassin that has an AoE move-block ability, and I'll name a tank or fighter.

This is the problem with characterizing Diana as an assassin. Assassins generally do not have move-block abilities and shields coupled with them. Indeed, crowd-control and shields are typically of tanks and fighters, not assassins.
I should have clarified. I was refering to targeted gap closers. Obviously there are further ways of travel that aren't targeted (Lissandra, and yes, Zac). But huge range dashes that target aren't put on non-assassins.

Your first statement.....I'm lost. I can name a lot of champions that aren't assassins, or tanks, or fighters, that have "moveblock abiltiies".

Diana is in a nebulous limbo between fighter and assassin. I just happen to think she's closer to assassin. And my reasoning has to do with her ability to "fight" other fighters. Put her in a melee bash contest with Jarvan, Xin, Aatrox, Jax, Shyvana, Olaf, Garen, Darius, Renekton, Shen, Singed, Tryndamere.....see what happens.


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Alorasence

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
I should have clarified. I was refering to targeted gap closers. Obviously there are further ways of travel that aren't targeted (Lissandra, and yes, Zac). But huge range dashes that target aren't put on non-assassins.

Your first statement.....I'm lost. I can name a lot of champions that aren't assassins, or tanks, or fighters, that have "moveblock abiltiies".

Diana is in a nebulous limbo between fighter and assassin. I just happen to think she's closer to assassin. And my reasoning has to do with her ability to "fight" other fighters. Put her in a melee bash contest with Jarvan, Xin, Aatrox, Jax, Shyvana, Olaf, Garen, Darius, Renekton, Shen, Singed, Tryndamere.....see what happens.
And if you buff her to the point of being able to fight these tanks and bruisers. You will be left with a tank/bruiser capable of an 850 range targeted gap close.

Reiteration=giving Diana more durability IS the problem, has been the problem, and will not make her healthier.