Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

First Riot Post
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Macab

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
There are a lot of clever ways to make her W synergize with her autoattacks. This is definitely one way to do that, although probably not the cleanest solution. I definitely see value in your goal though and it's a (general) direction that I think is definitely worth considering.


Hi Vesh,


Why not allow her w orbs to inflict moon light?


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Gimily

Junior Member

01-30-2014

I understand that some champions have to change in order to stay with the times but ive played hundreds of diana games and have tried the bruiser role and i just dont enjoy it as much, i really enjoy the if i hit u with this skillshot im going to be in ur face, not so much as ahris charm being this is virtually impossible to hit if ur good but more like ur in trouble if i hit this Q then u will at least be low, i also thin LICH BANE is a great way to build her for an assassin, almost like a more assassin melee version of TF, go Q-R-LB-AA-W-AA-Q-R and getting a kill or 2 out of it by delaying ur second R until u still get the reset, sure its not pure assassin but it is most definitely not a fighter build like jax or something, she is a caster, and trying to build in order to utilize those skills to be greater than just aaing as well as tankyness, if u just want to make her a passive bot with AAs, why give her abilities dmg?and why not just pick mundo/jax/rene and do that way better because u have CC or way better tankyness etc. I feel like tryinf to force diana into a tank with just a shield for tankyness she isnt going to have a good time, and if u want her to be like jax or something there is no way she will do the job aswell as him because he was built for it hes got a gap closer then tankyness and a bit of dmg, his kit is built for it, dianas kit is not that, she has range with her Q that doesnt fit that idea, all of her abilities are built for her to get to a single target and kill them, i feel like the way she is being talked about here, she could become an ap based fiora or yi, who are not in a good spot right now. Basically im just saying trying to fit her into a fighter role unless u completely change the idea of her Q -R she isnt going to do that very well, that mechanic is meant for her to jump to one target blow them up try to keep ur r of cooldown if possible and jump to a new target, with LB she can do this because she can keep her R off cool down and stay in a team fight for long enough ti get a few kills and resets of of q-r almost like khazix


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TheFrozenIsles

Member

01-30-2014

Ok I'm a big fan of all three Mount Targon and I to what to give my two cents.

No matter what changes are done I hope she stay as a all in champ.Where she lives simple do to her tankness.That is one reason why I like all three as they can all get into the back lines but the only why out is to walk out.Because of this reason I all was build her as a fighter(I think all Mount Targon should be a tank or fighter first or second.)

What I would like to see change is her E(Moonfall).No idea what need done to it but I never like abilitys where you can put 1 ponit into it and leave it tell the end.Plus I all was try to kill the enemy before I even think about using it.


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Da Ganzi

Junior Member

01-30-2014

Another problem with diana is that she is extremely easy to gank. Forgetting the discussion of her as a bruiser or assassin for a moment, it would be really cool if she could expend her ult to get out of a situation by launching to a friendly unit or minion similar to Jax or Katarina.

I don't think this would put her over the top because the ability is on a 25 second cooldown at rank one and using it to get away takes a lot of power away from her for a long time.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFrozenIsles View Post
Ok I'm a big fan of all three Mount Targon and I to what to give my two cents.

No matter what changes are done I hope she stay as a all in champ.Where she lives simple do to her tankness.That is one reason why I like all three as they can all get into the back lines but the only why out is to walk out.Because of this reason I all was build her as a fighter(I think all Mount Targon should be a tank or fighter first or second.)

What I would like to see change is her E(Moonfall).No idea what need done to it but I never like abilitys where you can put 1 ponit into it and leave it tell the end.Plus I all was try to kill the enemy before I even think about using it.
You reminded me to point this out. Pantheon is already the Targon bruiser. Leona is the tank. Diana for assassin/mage. Pantheon can't go full glass cannon he needs a Randuins at least.


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Dmasher

Junior Member

01-30-2014

I loved your article and I loved the ideas that you addressed in the forum. I enjoyed reading your opinion and agreed with you on many points, however it was a labored read. Although you addressed that there was spelling errors in the comment below, there are several things that also threw me as a reader.

This is my humble opinion, so please consider and form your own ideas from my considerations. my suggestion would be to take down the post and to re-post with the mistakes taken out. When I read the article it appeared that you were trying to be serious and trying to address a problem that you had identified. It was difficult for me as a reader to stay on your train of thought when I was constantly derailed by minor spelling mistakes, it kinda broke my heart. There are probably spelling errors in my comment as well; the amount of errors that came out of that the article gave the perception that your idea was rushed and that your idea wasn't thoroughly thought out because you rushed the presentation.

The second suggestion would to separate your argument. Your argument as it stands, at least to me, looks like a really yummy bowl of spaghetti. I want to dive in, but I don't know where to start because its so tangled. You address that there is balance issue and that she is torn between roles with the current meta. you list two different options with her current direction, and then immediately show bias to one side that you prefer, the assassination role. this tells me as a reader that whatever part of the article is not about the assassination role is useless. You then jump to general changes to Diana, which seems juxtaposed to me. This is a jump in the thought process and it sends me in a tailspin. I would first address this in the beginning of the article then jump into roles with that in mind, or cut it out of the article all together.

After you mention the general changes you jump from utility to theme of Diana. You say "She didn't take down the So[l]ari with a Sun[f]ire cape." Another point of bias and it has no pertinence to your argument, I would cut this paragraph out or add this to end of the article as a side note or additional reading, or perhaps a last statement.

After the theme paragraph you return to your main idea, the role of Diana. To my bewilderment you mention the fighting role almost as a toss away paragraph, that is your bred and butter! it needs some love! this also adds to the idea of bias!

Overall with your organization you need to make an outline and have a good flow where if you can follow every sentence from the last it is good. Even more, the article has to go from A-Z in that order, meaning your thesis has to follow through until the end of your conclusion.

Third you put assumptions in your article. You say "you guys don't like shields on assassins or burst damage on fighters. You have accidentally given her too much [durability] during the situations where she gets a full shield off which makes her feel unfair to play against even though one crit will probably eat her shield assuming she gets it off and doesn't have to use hourglass immediately or get hit with some form of CC." You put this into the article and it comes off extremely childish. If this is true show a source, if not, leave it out.

I think you have great ideas and I want to take your article seriously, but I can't and neither will Riot until you fix these problems. Please fix this problems and repost! Also post it to reddit so I can see. My Reddit username is also dmasher, please PM me there if you have any questions, I am practically there the whole day. If you have taken offence to this post, don't! I want to help you and make your argument better!


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PatentlyWillton

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
He posted, "We all agree that she's not an assassin (as you too pointed out in your post), she's something like a tanky-bursting frontliner."

Who is the "we" who have decided she's a frontliner? Name a front liner with an 850 range gap close and I'll name an assassin. Maybe I'll name a tanky assassin. But please stop refering to her as you would refer to Xin Zhao or Jarvan.
Name one assassin that has an AoE move-block ability, and I'll name a tank or fighter.

This is the problem with characterizing Diana as an assassin. Assassins generally do not have move-block abilities and shields coupled with them. Indeed, crowd-control and shields are typically of tanks and fighters, not assassins.


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eNrAgEdCaNaDiAn

Junior Member

01-30-2014

Thanks for looking and responding to the posts. Diana was a staple in the beginning of Season 3 and I definitely enjoyed her kit (even outside her "OP" stint). I think we would all definitely like to see her receive some work so she can be brought back to a competitive level without her being a overpowered and a perma-ban again.


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Teysa Karlovv

Senior Member

01-30-2014

I like that she can be bursty or bruiser, it means you can play her in more than 1 role and build her different ways.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-30-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmasher View Post
I loved your article and I loved the ideas that you addressed in the forum. I enjoyed reading your opinion and agreed with you on many points, however it was a labored read. Although you addressed that there was spelling errors in the comment below, there are several things that also threw me as a reader.

This is my humble opinion, so please consider and form your own ideas from my considerations. my suggestion would be to take down the post and to re-post with the mistakes taken out. When I read the article it appeared that you were trying to be serious and trying to address a problem that you had identified. It was difficult for me as a reader to stay on your train of thought when I was constantly derailed by minor spelling mistakes, it kinda broke my heart. There are probably spelling errors in my comment as well; the amount of errors that came out of that the article gave the perception that your idea was rushed and that your idea wasn't thoroughly thought out because you rushed the presentation.

The second suggestion would to separate your argument. Your argument as it stands, at least to me, looks like a really yummy bowl of spaghetti. I want to dive in, but I don't know where to start because its so tangled. You address that there is balance issue and that she is torn between roles with the current meta. you list two different options with her current direction, and then immediately show bias to one side that you prefer, the assassination role. this tells me as a reader that whatever part of the article is not about the assassination role is useless. You then jump to general changes to Diana, which seems juxtaposed to me. This is a jump in the thought process and it sends me in a tailspin. I would first address this in the beginning of the article then jump into roles with that in mind, or cut it out of the article all together.

After you mention the general changes you jump from utility to theme of Diana. You say "She didn't take down the So[l]ari with a Sun[f]ire cape." Another point of bias and it has no pertinence to your argument, I would cut this paragraph out or add this to end of the article as a side note or additional reading, or perhaps a last statement.

After the theme paragraph you return to your main idea, the role of Diana. To my bewilderment you mention the fighting role almost as a toss away paragraph, that is your bred and butter! it needs some love! this also adds to the idea of bias!

Overall with your organization you need to make an outline and have a good flow where if you can follow every sentence from the last it is good. Even more, the article has to go from A-Z in that order, meaning your thesis has to follow through until the end of your conclusion.

Third you put assumptions in your article. You say "you guys don't like shields on assassins or burst damage on fighters. You have accidentally given her too much [durability] during the situations where she gets a full shield off which makes her feel unfair to play against even though one crit will probably eat her shield assuming she gets it off and doesn't have to use hourglass immediately or get hit with some form of CC." You put this into the article and it comes off extremely childish. If this is true show a source, if not, leave it out.

I think you have great ideas and I want to take your article seriously, but I can't and neither will Riot until you fix these problems. Please fix this problems and repost! Also post it to reddit so I can see. My Reddit username is also dmasher, please PM me there if you have any questions, I am practically there the whole day. If you have taken offence to this post, don't! I want to help you and make your argument better!
None taken. This was rushed in the sense that I focused on the spelling mistakes that ai noticed immediately. I also tried to give everyone what they wanted and five entry forir growth. I have a tendency to ramble in real life as my mind is constantly running to the extent that I can fall asleep with a though mid sentence and pick it back up on awakening. This actually gets to be frustrating after a while.

However I tried to make it somewhat humorous hence the sun fire cape joke. Since she is a moon lady and all. I was doing my nest to explain the desires of both parties though my desires are solely for her to be am assassin. That's why I make it a point to emphasize that I do not feel the fighter route is best as we already have a lot of tanky initiators. Put a ravenous hydra on Jarvan and boom there you go. I explained that somewhere in pages 10-16 I want to say.

My main goal is to have her be made a bit stronger while maintain her theme. I just feel like the assassin her captures that best.

I do apologize for the difficult read though. Just imagine having to type it all on a smart phone though. I also think I had work the day I typed this unsure about that though. Either way I do need to stop typing in my though pattern it is far too sporadic.