Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Shopach

Junior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximum Jarvan View Post
So from the assassin passive would you rather the AP ratio be dropped and just leave the base damage leaving it to function like Riven's?
That probably would actually work if you wanted to stick with the spells proc the passive thing. I would drop the 2 stacks though. It's easy enough to work AAs between spells that I think having it stack just makes it too easy. I don't know, but yeah I think that would be cool.

The only problem I can see with it would be that then bruiser Diana would actually be even stronger, since you could build her without AP and still do a truckload of damage by mixing in spells with autos.


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Alorasence

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shopach View Post
That probably would actually work if you wanted to stick with the spells proc the passive thing. I would drop the 2 stacks though. It's easy enough to work AAs between spells that I think having it stack just makes it too easy. I don't know, but yeah I think that would be cool.

The only problem I can see with it would be that then bruiser Diana would actually be even stronger, since you could build her without AP and still do a truckload of damage by mixing in spells with autos.
That line of change is more complex than it sounds. The amount of mana you would need to proc that kind of a passive consistently would force you to buff the mana costs on q and r (lower them), which would force you to nerf the damage on q and r. Which would send her into sunfire cape.

You are always going to run into a problem if you make her into a bruiser, with real, lasting sustain/tankyness...and leave her with a 850 range gap close.

Her range makes tankiness the problem, not the solution.


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Iohet

Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
Diana doesn't have this however. She just needs to jump a guy and hit all her buttons and if she's ahead enough then she wins. This is especially problematic due to her AP scaling shield (get defensive rewards for building offensive) and you correctly identified that as a core problem. Even without it, if she was powerful enough to just nuke somebody from full but then squishy enough to die for it, Diana post-6 might as well have a Q that reads "on hit, both Diana and her enemy die." Clearly not a very exciting ability for either party involved.
How about scaling her shield like J4's shield? J4 is generally well balanced and can be damage or tank or a mixture of both, and while his shield is somewhat minor, it's enough to give you that little extra burst of life


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Ok after reading every post in this thread I would once again like to thank everyone for their opinions even the ones that seemed a bit more hostile. All feedback is good feedback.

On page 17 a guy explained perfectly Diana's Q. It is hard to dodge hut unreliable to hit. Her Q is basically a chess game.

At the end of the day I want assassin Diana to work and hve Riot say yes this is balanced. If she gets far enough ahead she will 100-0 a squishy target. That is not toxic. Having someone dump their whole kit on you whnr you build no defense and having it actually kill you is FAIR. If that were not possible this game would not actually be anything.

Also as someone else pointed out Riven has a shield that scales with AD. In fact almost every champion that has a shield has one that either scales with their primary stat. For example Nautilus has a shield that scales with health. Luc has a shield that is capable of protecting her ENTIRE team that scales with AP. A fed Lux may not guaranteed 100-0 another squishy but you are not gonna stay in that lane afterwards. Jarvan has a shield that scales with being near enemies. To be honest shields aren't really that bad especially not Diana's when you look at other champions.

Gragas has an 18% damage reduction. Do you know how insane it would be if they actually went abyssal and zhonya's Void staff Athene's(for car) and a Ga with boots. His damage may not be as high but that would still be around 300 AP and his durability would make Diana's shield more hilarious than the idea of jungle sona on pro play with no armor runes.

Lulu shield scales off of AP

Janna shield?

Nidalee heal has a high AP ratio for a heal. She builds AP for damage so clearly her heal is completely toxic. I am aware that some people feel that is true but moreover my point is Diana is not your biggest offender of getting survivability out of offense or something that is very much within the ideal build path. And maybe that is not a bad thing.


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irott

Senior Member

01-29-2014

How about her passive applying the moonlight debuff? Of course that would make her more of an assassin.

Could also try her passive consuming the moonlight debuff.

I would just enjoy building her as an AS/AP melee fighter. She is just so fun.


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Nureru

Senior Member

01-29-2014

I really love the way Diana feels to play, but I agree it would be a lot more satisfying if she had the tools to get into a fight and stay there instead of just vaporizing a squishy and then exploding.


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Mistiya

Member

01-29-2014

I mean, what I'm hearing here is "Diana with good numbers is toxic." And then "But I don't think we should make any (sweeping) changes to her kit." Well, you kinda have to pick one don't you? I would be perfectly happy with a couple QOL style buffs and a small numbers tweak to bring her back into competitive play. You don't have to megabuff anything, and say, nerfing her ult damage (SLIGHTLY) while lowering her shield cooldown and cost so she could use it more often would really help her out and I think that's all she'd actually need. Help her survive in a fight without HAVING to 100-0 a carry and then die. Which come to think of it, is the same trouble Rengar has. Only Diana doesn't have stealth to get in and already has to actually land a skillshot (like you are changing Rengar's bola to.)

But, then I think Riot is just going to ignore Diana and leave her how she is, because she isn't trash tier she's just not very good. I am sad, because I always loved seeing her in competitive play, and I think she is a very healthy champion in the jungle. And the new skin is gorgeous and I want to buy it very badly, but it feels like a waste of money when I can't play her in anything but bot-game WOTD's.


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Wezz

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Personally I think the thing is that her problem is that she is all-in and identity crisis.

If you play her as an assassin with a little bulk (zhoyna's abyssal) works fine, and then have some more followup damage in the form of nashor's lich bane

After that you can get some more bulk with GA, more damage with VS, or anything

I'd rather she stay in this niche state than have riot "buff" her and take away parts of her kit ala rework.

But if there were any changes I would have to make is to increase E range, increase q speed, or damage done by orbs.


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LightEcho

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I don't think Diana needs any sort of sweeping changes. Outside of QRR, I think her core pattern is really fun. If you've ever played Diana in 3s you'll know how fun it is to skirmish with her when you can't nuke anyone out. There's something really great about a passive proc into your second rotation of spells as they come off cooldown. It's really satisfying.
If QRR is the problem why not just make Q-R reduce the R cooldown to say 3 seconds instead of an instant refresh.


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Blaine Tog

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightEcho View Post
If QRR is the problem why not just make Q-R reduce the R cooldown to say 3 seconds instead of an instant refresh.
First, because it would feel really, really bad. Being able to QRR when you need to is really satisfying.

Second, because it would make QRR a total noob trap. You'd almost never not be better off waiting the extra 2 seconds for Q to come back off cooldown.