Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Lunar Lightning

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Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
Thank you for writing that out.

Iím okay with change. Iíve been arguing for her change for a few months now. What I am not totally convinced of is that her play pattern is so different and so much more toxic than other examples of what she does.

To be honest, I am not really sure how to respond. You use examples of Akali, Fizz, and Talon, as positive examples of healthy gameplay. I have trouble agreeing with you on that, very basic, level.

Diana is fun for me because she has no alternative option. She has no escape. She has no Plan B. The raw agression...Scorn of the Moon....is what is compelling about her.

I think there is room to change her to make her less "feast or famine".

But my suggested changes are small.

I'd like her passive to not expire. I want to be glowing, flashing, threatening. I almost WANT to telegraph my plans of brutish assassination. As it stands, the passive fades, and my chance to go in fades with it.

I don't think the situation is as complicated as health ratios, missile speed slows, or attack speed buffs.

I, skewer me on a stick, actually think.....she's well designed.
ya i wish her passive didnt expire, also on topic of her passive they should move the 20% as into her base and remove it so that nashors is more effective


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SerBlaise

Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I don't think Diana needs any sort of sweeping changes. Outside of QRR, I think her core pattern is really fun. If you've ever played Diana in 3s you'll know how fun it is to skirmish with her when you can't nuke anyone out. There's something really great about a passive proc into your second rotation of spells as they come off cooldown. It's really satisfying.
I just hope that the answer to this isn't to take away the reset (and thus the actual purpose of moonlight). I could live with a nerf to R damage as long as she received a buff in survivability and/or CC utility. Honestly I don't double R unless I'm really freaking desperate: I usually try and be patient and wait for my Q to come off cooldown or else I use my second R to get the hell out. :P

I mean if you double R, you are literally useless for the rest of the team fight. THAT is the real issue with QRR. And R doesn't do much damage already: 220 +60% AP at max rank. RR and that's 440 +120%. Compare to the three essense of shadow charges Akali gets at max rank: 750+ 150% AP (and that's not counting the damage she would do if she q'd the enemy first in between). Diana's RR is obviously already way less than a true AP Assassin's. This is why she is underused: she doesn't have the power of an AP assassin and she doesn't have anything else to compensate for that lack, either in making her more of a bruiser or more of an assassin (or some hybrid). It's that sticky in between zone she's in, that has yet to be perfected.


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Pinky27

Member

01-29-2014

I actually enjoy the burstiness of Diana. It sets her apart from the likes of Vi, Aatrox, and Vayne (other members of the "3 Strikes and YOU'RE DEAD! XD" Club). Forcing her into a tanky dps role could just make her feel like another brawler just sitting around waiting for that 3rd proc (again, the above fighters). As much as I love Vi, I play Diana for a completely different reason and style.

DEFENSE OF HER BURST PART 2: THEMES
Leona functions thematically and in terms of gameplay as a champion that will fight to the bitter end protecting a comrade. Diana, thematically, should conversely do everything in her power to kill that unfortunate victim in the most efficient manner possible.
I'm scared that removing Diana's burst will lose the "flavor" of the champion and just blend her into the mesh that is the tanky dps fighters.
(Side Note: So what if she isn't very useful in this meta? I hadn't dreamed in season 3 that Taric would have been the strongest support or even useful in preseason 4--you never know how things will change)


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Asir

Senior Member

01-29-2014

I honestly think that if Diana's R range was buffed back to her max Q range then she'd be much more enjoyable.


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Chennasaurus

Junior Member

01-29-2014

I find the problem with Diana is that she's too binary. If she isn't fed/farmed then she has all the tools to initiate fights but nothing to protect herself with besides a shield which most likely isn't too strong. Since I find that Akali has the most similar to kit to Diana's, I'll use her as comparison. I'm not saying that Akali is a completely balanced champion, but at least her shroud keeps her safe; even if it gets pinked, she still gains a decent bit of resistances. In addition, she can still get resets and help her team out, as the shroud also is an admittedly mediocre long-term area slow. Basically, if Diana is fed, then Q-W-R-R will wipe out squishies while she still remains healthy due to her innate tankiness and shield. If she isn't fed, then she's neither tanky nor bursty.

The other problem is that she really is too dependent on landing her Q, an odd-shaped skillshot which, though it's argued that it's hard to dodge, isn't what you'd call reliable either. The CD at max rank of her Q is 6 seconds. Even if fed but misses a Q, it's still a painful choice to go in without the R reset or wait 6 seconds for Q to come off CD.

To solve the "tanky and bursty if fed and neither tanky nor bursty if not" problem, the biggest (if only) culprit is her W shield. If she gets ahead, then the AP that she accumulates puts up both decent damage and decent beefiness. If behind, then she relies on a fairly measly shield and unimpressive damage. If Riot wants Diana to be an assassin (a playstyle I personally like more) then that means that her W cannot provide both high damage and moderate tankiness. Maybe buff the initial shield value but make her lose her entire shield entirely if all her bubbles pop? That way, she'd have to sacrifice damage to be tanky and vice-versa. If Riot wants Diana to be a fighter, then just have the shield value scale off tankiness (bonus health, resistances) perhaps?

To solve the problem of relying too much on her Q to R in, then maybe buff her so W or E or both can apply the Moonlight mark. Therefore, she's still punished for missing Q because she'll have to walk much closer to apply her mark, but at the same time she has other options than just sitting around and waiting for Q to come back up.

Which brings another issue up: her E. It's not really worth putting more than 1 point in it. Maybe increase the range or the disable duration (longer knockup/displacement time)? Or add some damage to it and lower her damage with her other abilities. I'm not too creative with this, but certainly there can be a way to make putting levels into her E more meaningful.


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Gahlo

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinky27 View Post
(Side Note: So what if she isn't very useful in this meta? I hadn't dreamed in season 3 that Taric would have been the strongest support or even useful in preseason 4--you never know how things will change)
Taric wasn't suddenly a monster in PreS4 because people magically found out he was good again. Riot changed nearly, if not all, of hit kit in some way and overshot it a bit. In addition, they messed with gold income so he could build much tankier than he could before and wasn't blown up if he was on the front lines.

Diana hasn't had those kinds of changes and is why she's been on the back burner for close to 9 months.


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Sephry

Junior Member

01-29-2014

Just out of curiosity why do people think the QRR combo is so boring? I love playing mid ap diana and slowly widdling down the opponents health with my passive and q, and the q is nice because your opponent doesn't know when that R will come. They HAVE to back off because you could jump them and your jungler could come out of no where, then when they are really low just go as hard as you can (Q-W-R-E-R(Second R if they flash)). The QR combo has always been imo the funnest part of her kit because of all the neat tricks you can do with it. It's not just a combo when you know how to get into the minds of your opponent with it.

TLR- QRR should stay,don't mess with dah lunar lady of death.

Added on- Also Q's are not hard to land after you have played her enough, but at the same time they are easy to dodge if you know what you are doing. I know that sounds liek a paradox but its really a skill match up involving the q's.


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GlobDaBlob1

Senior Member

01-29-2014

I think its pretty dumb that she can rush Abyssal or zonyas in lane since its her core item. Her lanning is too strong.


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Izisery

Senior Member

01-29-2014

What about simply removing the reset from her R, and putting it on her Q. Whenever a champion is afflicted with moonlight, an autoattack on that person consumes the moonlight and resets her Q. That way her ult, while still being bursty, becomes more of a utility skill to catch champions, to burst them down with q, a skill shot, and then you have more interesting, attackspeed/fighter builds on Diana, who wants to duel, more than just oneshot you with double ults.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I don't think Diana needs any sort of sweeping changes. Outside of QRR, I think her core pattern is really fun. If you've ever played Diana in 3s you'll know how fun it is to skirmish with her when you can't nuke anyone out. There's something really great about a passive proc into your second rotation of spells as they come off cooldown. It's really satisfying.
Hmm. What if R lost some damage but Q could have up to 50% CDR? (50% CDR is something I think suspect would be interesting to try for some other lategame-oriented abilities in the game, especially seeing as Yasuo already has a "more than 40% CDR" mechanic (sort of) attached to Steel Tempest.)