Hell Riot. I love Diana. Lets talk about her please.

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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I don't think Diana needs any sort of sweeping changes. Outside of QRR, I think her core pattern is really fun. If you've ever played Diana in 3s you'll know how fun it is to skirmish with her when you can't nuke anyone out. There's something really great about a passive proc into your second rotation of spells as they come off cooldown. It's really satisfying.
That's why I suggested a different benefit for QR. Another R just isn't very good for the game, and hardly adds all that much to her gameplay.


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Buk Wild

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Senior Member

01-29-2014

Please please do not ask for Diana buffs, she is already very powerful and any buffs would just force Riot to nerf her again. She was one of my most played last season and is going to be one of my most played this season, I'm sorry that you can't make her work but trust me, she does work right now if you're willing to put the time into learning her.

Riot, PLEASE do not buff Diana. I beg you.

edit: seriously why are you guys trying to destroy Diana? She's not just viable she is actually STRONG right now, you begging for buffs will only put her over the top and force sweeping changes on Riot's part. Don't do this. Please don't do this.


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Lans1ing

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
I don't think Diana needs any sort of sweeping changes. Outside of QRR, I think her core pattern is really fun. If you've ever played Diana in 3s you'll know how fun it is to skirmish with her when you can't nuke anyone out. There's something really great about a passive proc into your second rotation of spells as they come off cooldown. It's really satisfying.
Vesh all of us care about this champion very much and we don't want her core play to change. Also we been asking for something to be done to help this champion for a nearly a year now. Can you please, please give us an ETA when will any changed be implemented. We are all very very eager to play her in higher elos again so please can you give us an ETA?


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PHDancake

Junior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Well then you may be at an impasse: The only glass cannon melee in League are pretty much assassins.

So if you don't want her to be an assassin, there is only one thing left in League for melee: Tanky DPS

And what is AP Tanky DPS? Zac. Shen. Maokai. Leona. Amumu.

Tanks.

So that's what Diana's going to be then.

And all of those other champions will be better than her at it.
Rumble?


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alorasence View Post
You will see sunfire cape Diana.
Of course. It may even be the best build on her.

See if Riot tries to push her into the standard 'AP Tanky DPS' role, she's just going to be another underwhelming Zac or Nautilus variant.

If they're that set in 'formulaic' ways, they may even be more likely to change the name of Sunfire Cape than to try to make a new niche for Diana.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHDancake View Post
Rumble?
Rumble has a huge amount of range and AoE on almost everything he does, perhaps ostensibly negating most of his melee nature. Similar to Kassadin-- a melee autoattack is perhaps kind of just 'for show'.


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elephantbuddy

Member

01-29-2014

If we want Diana to be a fighter, why don't we compare her kit to Jax'?

Moonfall vs. Counter Strike
Sorry for not going in order, but this is the easiest comparison. They are both AoE Hard CC abilities with relatively long cooldowns. A small knockback+2 sec. slow is a bit too situational to compare outright to a 100% dodge chance+conditional stun, but ignoring those parts of those abilities, Counter Strike has a much lower cooldown at all levels and deals minor damage. It is clearly (at least to me) superior to Moonfall as the stun is relatively easy to hit.

Lunar Rush(R) vs. Leap Strike(Q)
These are their respective champion's mobility tools. If we consider the Cooldown of Lunar Rush to actually be the cooldown of Crescent Strike then each ability has the same cooldown (Alternatively, we could say that Lunar Rush is usable twice every 15 seconds for an average 7.5 sec. cooldown). Leap Strike has 10 (+100% Bonus AD) than Lunar Rush, but Diana has a few Magic Pen./Reduction options such as Liandry's Torment or Abyssal Scepter, so I would consider their damage to be about the same. Since Lunar Rush has a slightly longer range, but a less reliable cooldown that is anywhere from 0-1.5 seconds longer than Leap Strike, I would say these abilities are just about equal.

Moonsilver Blade(Innate) vs. Passive of Grandmaster's Might(R)+Relentless Assault(Innate)
As far as the Relentless Assault part goes, it is clearly superior to Moonsilver Blade's flat 20% AS bonus. Jax can get anywhere from 4% to 84% depending on his level and stacks. However, Moonsilver Blade is more reliable as Jax must be level 16 and attack 6 times before he can get that 84% attack speed. The on-hit damage comparison gets a bit tricky. Jax gets 0/100/160/220 (+70% AP) at levels 1/6/11/16 assuming people level their ult like usual. for comparison, at those same levels, Diana gets 20/50/105/250 (+60% AP). Diana obviously has the pre-six advantage, then trades it to Jax until she gets enough AP/Magic Pen. and/or levels to outscale him in raw damage. I'm to lazy to run the calculations (plus it's rather situational as to their builds), but when the on-hit damage and the Attack Speed are combined Jax probably does more damage.

Crescent Strike(Q) vs. Empower(W)
These skills along with their on-hit damage make up much of these champion's damage output and also enhance their respective mobility tool. Since I have already taken into account the Crescent Strike's refresh of Lunar Rush and Empower applies the same damage whether on Leap Strike or an autoattack, We can get away with only comparing their damage. For Crescent Strike, (200 (+ 70% AP))/6=33.3 (+11.67% AP) damage per second, while Empower works out to (180 (+ 60% AP))/3=80 (+20% AP) DPS (Assuming Rank 5 of the respective ability). For Crescent Strike to match Empower's DPS Diana will have to have at least 400.1 AP which for a fighter build Diana is not unreasonable, but still a bit high. Triforce would add 6 DPS to Empower which means Diana will need another 60 or so AP to match that.

Pale Cascade(W) vs. Active of Grandmaster's Might(R)
These are both mostly defensive abilities, but they are incredibly hard to compare as each becomes more effective the more defensive stats the Champion has. Also, the damage on Pale Cascade just hampers their comparison even more.

Looking at each part of these champions' kits shows that they are extremely similar. Jax appears to have a slight lead in ability damage that would be mitigated by Diana being able to scale more uniformly with AP, which would then be unmitigated by Jax building AD and doing more autoattack damage, which would then be remitigated by Diana building Nashor's and doing more autoattack damage. The tradeoff I see between these two champions would be sustain for Jax through usually BotRK or Gunblade versus burst damage from Diana's Q->R->->R->W(->maybe a Lich Bane proc). The problem would be balancing that burst so she can't just assasinate her target and then tank through the enemy retaliation (which I think she still should be able to do IF she gets pretty far ahead). Possible solutions would be raise her passive damage while lowering her ult and/or E damage, or instead of completely refreshing her ult cooldown lower it to a fixed amount (maybe 1.5 to 2.5 seconds). I'd use Jax' burst as a benchmark as they are obviously pretty similar champions and try to put the base damage and scaling pretty similar seeing as Diana will build more AP than Jax.


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elephantbuddy

Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Well then you may be at an impasse: The only glass cannon melee in League are pretty much assassins.

So if you don't want her to be an assassin, there is only one thing left in League for melee: Tanky DPS

And what is AP Tanky DPS? Zac. Shen. Maokai. Leona. Amumu.

Tanks.

So that's what Diana's going to be then.

And all of those other champions will be better than her at it.
I think Elise is pretty bruisery, and many people build Magic Pen. Zac rather than full tank Zac. I think that is where they want Diana.


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DragonToutNu

Senior Member

01-29-2014

What about to only reduce the cooldown on her q? Like 1 or 2 secs so she wont stay in the middle doing nothing!


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Neo Cyrus

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxReeboBand View Post
Don't be a ******. People love using her and care about her state so they want something done. I see nothing wrong with this. It's just like protesting to get laws or bills changed in the goverment. If you dont like seeing this stay away from it.
Wtf? I don't think you understood what I meant. Of course I'd like to see some improvements as well but I don't want her core pattern to be changed, exactly like Vesh said. I don't like the insane ideas Morelolol was throwing around about removing all her damage and turning her into a sub par AP bruiser.

Compare her to any mage and you'll see her damage (both base and scaling) is low enough that it would be fine adding 0.1 AP and that would go a long way towards helping her weak late game.

Let me refresh your memory, last time I made a long and detailed post you agreed with all of it.