Riot has never once made a sensible post about leaver protection.

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Praise the Void

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jvenom23 View Post
I agree with this too, regardless if i meant to or not i ruined the game for 4-9 other people and should be punished for it
could you imagine spending money on this game, and having it all taken away because you live in an area that doesn't offer stable internet? how is that fair? Getting punished for something you can't control sounds unreasonable


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Jvenom23

Recruiter

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel GIM View Post
could you imagine spending money on this game, and having it all taken away because you live in an area that doesn't offer stable internet? how is that fair? Getting punished for something you can't control sounds unreasonable
So you should be allowed to keep ruining the game for other people?


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FlynnOFlenniken

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Not gonna lie

gettin real tired of all these "why isn't lol more like dota 2" topics


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sfxworks

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Mathematically, I meant that the vast majority of players would have a low number of leaves. A few players are going to have 10/10 games with leavers, but it might be 1 in 5 million players.

Age of Mythology had this system where if you left it wasn't as much of a severe impact on your elo (for instance, you'd lose -2 instead of -10). To prevent leaving in general...they had a system where you couldn't play ranked (this could last weeks) if you commonly left or disconnected.


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Uiraya

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Mathematically, I meant that the vast majority of players would have a low number of leaves. A few players are going to have 10/10 games with leavers, but it might be 1 in 5 million players.
Mathematically, nobody cares about mathematics when it comes to the instant "why is this allowed to happen" awful feeling of a from-the-start disconnect causing you to lose time and lp (and not inconsiderate amounts of each) for reasons wholly out of your control. Afterwards, you now need to win a whole game- that's another 30-45 minutes- just to get back to where you were.

Your game in this state is unfinished. Finishing it should be priority #1.

Sometimes people rage, and they leave. Chances are, if that happens, their team was losing anyway. This is a whole different thing from the other two cases, which are from-the-start disconnects, and people's internet causing them to drop the game and be unable to get back in, even if they try. (Also your client's firewall issue and other bugs aren't helping this situation.)

You need to have a system in place to ensure that if a person doesn't even load the game after champ select, that the game is not permitted to start. This is so basic and obvious I feel like an idiot having to even say it. None of your 'but but people will be mean ' arguments even apply to this case, irrelevant as they are. This has to be addressed, and should have been built into the client years ago.

Then, if someone leaves during a game, for any reason- internet trouble, ragequit, power out, whatever- you must not hand out a near 100% automatic loss to the other four players who did nothing wrong. If people actually try to force a player to leave to prevent a loss, ban them. If a duo tries to abuse this, ban them. You automatically assume the worst of your playerbase (which may be wise, given how terrible they are) but all it is doing now is becoming a convenient excuse as to why you shouldn't, when what you should be doing is getting it done as soon as possible.

The implementation I like goes as follows: If a player doesn't leave the fountain for 4-5 minutes, a vote goes up to the other four members of the game. If ALL FOUR vote to continue the game, nothing happens. Otherwise, the game ends. No one other than the leaver (and their duo) gains or loses lp or mmr, everybody else gets a token amount of IP. The game does not exist as far as promotion matches are concerned. Simple, clean, done.

Any possible abuse case is already dealt with by tribunal and leaverbuster. Will it make ranked suck for a few weeks while people attempt to game the system? Yes. Will things improve dramatically very quickly as bans start going out? Yes. Is it worth the trouble? Yes. Ranked 4v5's MUST be fixed, and it is well within your power do to so. All you need is to stop hiding behind excuses and do it. The number of games that do not finish may indeed go up, but that is because the number of games that end in one sided 4v5 stomps is going down, which is something everybody wants.
~Uiru


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SmokingPuffin

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I'm open to thinking of solutions for the specific problem of a person not connecting to a game because I think that's a miserable experience that is completely not the fault of anyone in the game; for example, maybe restarting a match if a person never connected in the first 2 minutes.
Awesome that you're considering this problem. It's an extremely frustrating experience for all involved.


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The MechE

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeroUS View Post
Leaver Rate Frequency by Division:

14% of Games Unranked
12% of Games Bronze
7% of Games Silver
....

You say the leaver rate is minimal Lyte but according to elophant, the average unranked player is expected to meet a leaver once every 7 games, which seems high.
Summoners, please down vote this summoner. He has bad data.

Here's the true elophant data

http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/charts/tier

As you can see, there is NOT a 14% leaver rate in unranked. It's 1.5%

Also, as you go up in ELO, the leaver rate gets even smaller.


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Teslar

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Junior Member

01-29-2014

There's something I'd like to point out about the Dota 2 system because it seems like a lot of people don't quite understand it. If someone abandons before a certain time, (I think it's 5 min?) then no stats are recorded for the game and you wont get punished for leaving. If they abandon after that time, the game still counts but you wont get penalized if you leave. Because it works this way, it doesn't get abused.


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Uiraya

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel GIM View Post
could you imagine spending money on this game, and having it all taken away because you live in an area that doesn't offer stable internet? how is that fair? Getting punished for something you can't control sounds unreasonable
When I realized my internet sucked I got better internet.

Obviously nobody is going to have 100% uptime but if you KNOW your internet is unstable and you choose to join ranked anyway? Yeah, I'd take your money and ban you in an instant. You DO control whether or not you ruin a game for 4 other people.
~Uiru


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ninjagear

Senior Member

01-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
But remember, what % of that is an organic leave such as an ISP issue or hardware issue? No matter what we do design-wise, we can't fix those types of issues.

Taking the unranked number, if 10% of games have an organic leave, then really anything we implement can solve a piece of the 4% remaining. This isn't to say that we shouldn't work on improving leavers by 4%, but I think it's also safe to say that working on Team Builder first is probably more valuable and has a larger chance at improving the player experience overall.
lyte, why are there no ranked queue time-outs for leavers? u can disable game modes with ease. whats to stop u from punishing people that exhibit this behavior immediately so that there is no disconnect between the crime/punishment?

edit: and to add, who cares about organic leaves? its all the same, a person with a ****ty rig/crappy ISP joins a ranked game knowing that the chance of completion is low, but they join anyways. i dont expect someone with shin splints to run at a track meet, in fact if they were on my team i would beg them to sit out.


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