Countering Udyr at Solomid?

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IHaveCrayons

Recruiter

01-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormsoul View Post
have to agree with this, but only because i find that ashe is a subpar carry and someone else with more carrying/ganking potential would do better in mid such as TF. Rushing ashe to 6 for the arrow can be nice but i think in the long run she's not too great in mid. She's a monster in the side lanes though, with ashe + 1 other harassing me i can't just turtle through it and i get money starved as udyr.
Yes, I believe so too. I find Ashe to be much more effective in the sidelanes where her slow and ultimate, when coordinated properly, pretty much ensure a kill. I played against a turtle stance Udyr in a sidelane today and absolutely dominated him because I had another with me.

But, a lot of times people just don't pick characters that can solomid. I'd rather solomid than have someone like Malphite do it. I just need to know if there's a strategy, if any, to at least slow down Udyr.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

banduan

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Phoenix Stance doesn't stun, Bear does.

Your slow still works if he's Turtled. The shield doesn't last forever. When he switches to bear, try and kite him.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Basilisk9466

Senior Member

01-01-2010

I don't have much respect for Ashe in general - she's a substandard ranged carry that's only useful for the CC. She lacks the damage and harassment abilities that a solo mid really needs, and so I don't really see much you can do to seriously counter Udyr, except play defensive and try to farm up as much as possible.

Nidalee I'm not convinced about as a solo mid. The only good thing is that she's got survivability and gets a much-needed level advantage, but her harassment skills are poor compared to Teemo or Tristana. Both of those (although I don't play Teemo, and haven't gone against Udyr with Trist) would in theory be able to kick him around; Blinding Dart and poison gives him a bad time, and offensively placed mushrooms turn mid into a bad place to be. Tristana could be even better; explosive shot nerfs Turtle (or should), she's got rocket for putting some distance between them, and turtle does squat if you've been shoved into a tower by buster shot.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bait

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-01-2010

when nidalee, you just attack him. if he switches to bear/turtle, he uses up mana. you can usually out-last him using your heals.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Melonyan

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHaveCrayons View Post
Yes, I believe so too. I find Ashe to be much more effective in the sidelanes where her slow and ultimate, when coordinated properly, pretty much ensure a kill. I played against a turtle stance Udyr in a sidelane today and absolutely dominated him because I had another with me.

But, a lot of times people just don't pick characters that can solomid. I'd rather solomid than have someone like Malphite do it. I just need to know if there's a strategy, if any, to at least slow down Udyr.
Totally agreed. I bought Ashe and played a bunch of games with her because she was basically free and I was also a fan of drow in DotA like you are. I had already played a lot of Trist before this, and found her totally weak as a solo hero compared to Trist. Her harassment is effective but unlike Teemo or Trist she needs a partner to really be a pain in your ass. She has a constant slow so if you combine that with any other character with a lot of early game damage and you've got a great lane. This is a far cry from my beloved drow ranger because she was the strongest hero in DotA at level 1 IMO.

Though I also don't see anything wrong with Ashe taking the mid-position and often times shes the best hero on a team for the job. Ashe taking mid is all about the quick ultimate, Ashe may not be the strongest carry in terms of sheer power, but a good Ashe can dominate games with crystal arrow. With that said, it's not always reliable, and even a good Ashe can miss arrows because players aren't always predictable and long-range arrow shots always have a certain amount of chance to them. Though when you see a great Ashe whose really on her game, with a bit of luck on her sight it can be a truely awesome spectacle. Unfortunately theres a LOT of bad Ashes too who just pick her because she's a "lol right-click easy hero". I agree though theres a lot of times she should just give the mid lane up to someone else.

As far as countering Udyr with Ashe 1v1 in the solo lane, I can't give any solid advice because I've never faced this situation before. Though from the way you describe it, Udyr may just be a counter for Ashe in the solo lane. I'd think heroes like Trist, Teemo, Nidalee, and Annie would have no problem with him solo mid though and I'm sure theres others as well.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ozie

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonyan View Post
Totally agreed. I bought Ashe and played a bunch of games with her because she was basically free and I was also a fan of drow in DotA like you are. I had already played a lot of Trist before this, and found her totally weak as a solo hero compared to Trist. Her harassment is effective but unlike Teemo or Trist she needs a partner to really be a pain in your ass. She has a constant slow so if you combine that with any other character with a lot of early game damage and you've got a great lane. This is a far cry from my beloved drow ranger because she was the strongest hero in DotA at level 1 IMO.

Though I also don't see anything wrong with Ashe taking the mid-position and often times shes the best hero on a team for the job. Ashe taking mid is all about the quick ultimate, Ashe may not be the strongest carry in terms of sheer power, but a good Ashe can dominate games with crystal arrow. With that said, it's not always reliable, and even a good Ashe can miss arrows because players aren't always predictable and long-range arrow shots always have a certain amount of chance to them. Though when you see a great Ashe whose really on her game, with a bit of luck on her sight it can be a truely awesome spectacle. Unfortunately theres a LOT of bad Ashes too who just pick her because she's a "lol right-click easy hero". I agree though theres a lot of times she should just give the mid lane up to someone else.

As far as countering Udyr with Ashe 1v1 in the solo lane, I can't give any solid advice because I've never faced this situation before. Though from the way you describe it, Udyr may just be a counter for Ashe in the solo lane. I'd think heroes like Trist, Teemo, Nidalee, and Annie would have no problem with him solo mid though and I'm sure theres others as well.

EXACTLY what Melonyon has said.

I am by no means a "skilled" Ashe, but I hope to find myself as above-par. Getting her ult early game, partnered with a decent team who can call a player porting home with 10% life at their turret, you'll make people rage every match.

Her ult only has a 75 second cool down, YEAH, a 75 SECOND cooldown. Throwing out ECA's phishing for a kill is acceptable in my books.

Back on to topic, I've never actually faced a Udyr at solomid, but I can only seem to treat it kinda like another awkward experience - Mundo.

A few matches back, I faced a Mundo at mid, I mean, WTF? I was ****ting my pants for the first four levels, as my harrassing didn't work as much because of his regen.

So, my only advice is to for the life of you, PUSH.

Make them hug the turret, they can't last hit if they do. They won't get gold. They'll need a gold/10 item. You've done your job.

This is honestly my best guess at laning vs Udyr, hope it helps.


And for all the haters of Ashe at solo-mid, come lane vs me brah.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

looney

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-01-2010

I recently played solo with Janna vs Udyr.

So .. I was constantly casting Howling Gale and Zephyr also tried auto-attacking him and he was just Turtling some of the damage then healing with 2 hits ... I was so ****ing mad ..
I cannot even image a champion without spells such as Ashe vs him..

Mid game of course I started ganking and he couldn't do anything in a team battle or to survive a gank, but the laning phase was quite horrible against him and not being able to stop him.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gamecmdr

Senior Member

01-01-2010

i really wonder if there would be so many noob ashes if she wsn't only 450 IP


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Jonas Sterling

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-01-2010

An Udyr should never beat an Ashe in an early-game solo situation. I've seen/been in the situation, unless the Ashe has little idea how to actually harass/last hit correctly, the Ashe will always win. It's just how it goes, Udyr is not a solo hero. He synergizes with too many other heroes early. Putting him on a solo, or even a jungle is just a waste of his talents; he should be played as a teamed lane/jungle beatstick, not a straight jungler.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IHaveCrayons

Recruiter

01-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas Sterling View Post
An Udyr should never beat an Ashe in an early-game solo situation. I've seen/been in the situation, unless the Ashe has little idea how to actually harass/last hit correctly, the Ashe will always win. It's just how it goes, Udyr is not a solo hero. He synergizes with too many other heroes early. Putting him on a solo, or even a jungle is just a waste of his talents; he should be played as a teamed lane/jungle beatstick, not a straight jungler.
Please tell me what I am doing wrong then. Udyr is the only champion I can't consistently win my lane against.


123