Regarding the Turret changes in 4.1

First Riot Post
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DeathBySky

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Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
P.S. Both Morello and Pwyff mentioned the 20 damage reduction lasts only for the first 8 minutes of the game, but they goofed for patch 4.1. We -want- it to be a set duration of time (and it will be in patch 4.2), but it's currently permanent. One thing I'd mention is that minions actually count for a lot of turret damage, and this change doesn't affect that. Also when you get to 10 minutes and beyond, 20 base damage reduction gets hard outscaled as champion damage goes up.
Doesn't this seem like a somewhat important issue? Would a hotfix be too hard? Could screw up some games


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Mindworm Jim

Senior Member

01-16-2014

I don't have a problem with the change, per say, and I understand why it was done. It's just so ... inelegant. Unfortunately I don't really see an easy way out of this. Any downside added to 2v1 swaps will ALSO apply to your opponent in the bottom lane, functionally removing it as a disadvantage. Hmm. I see why you went with an asymmetrical change, inelegant though it is.

*pondering occurs*

Blech. No good solutions. As I thought, most changes just affect both sides equally, thus no actual advantage or disadvantage is created. I suppose something like "the first turret of the game does not grant gold" or "turrets do not grant gold during the first X minutes of the game" might work, since thy discourage the early tower push, but I don't really like either of those since they create awkward incentives for players.


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The Scyphozoa

Senior Member

01-16-2014

You want both teams to be encouraged to send their duo lane to the same lane. And that's okay! But dragon was until now supposed to be the determining factor, and now we can see that it's not good enough. Perhaps making dragon more important would be a better place to start?

At least, that's my first instinct. I realize it could make early dragons too snowbally. So here's my other proposal: instead of towers having armor penetration, change it to an aura of armor reduction on champions only. That way, the fast pushers are going to be extremely vulnerable while hitting the tower, such that the victim of the fast push could easily kill them.


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HarrisonOwns

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01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by wetPP View Post
so you are enforcing meta
Riot is so dumb it hurts. This^


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

01-16-2014

My only gripe is while fast push may need counter-efforts, This is NOTthe way!

It's sloppy. It's an arbitrary rule that makes a single tower more important than every other tower on the map, even when there really shouldn't be any reason for it.

It changes the lane phase for champions who had nothing to do with the fast push, purely because they WILL be affected in their solo pushing power. Those who deal with roamers, in particular.


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VelNyeScienceEye

Senior Member

01-16-2014

This basically buffed roaming champs while nerfing pushing champs. Not to mention you can have a high mobility mid go bot for a 3v2 to push the lane hard early game forcing the 2 to be zoned and miss out on experience or just end up having to back. Had this happen in a game not to long ago and bot lane got stomped because of that simple thing at the beginning. Didn't help that the enemy was Leona and Caitlyn, champs you need to get ahead of in order to win lane.


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Solcrushed

Live Balance Designer

01-16-2014
2 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LVNsNASmurf View Post
1: YOU DUN GOOFED.

2: Why isn't it on the bot lane turret?
3: This will lead to 1-J-1-2 setups like we have, and 4v2 dives in pro play, while the toplaners are on an island.
2. If it is also on the bot lane turret it is no different from what we have currently. As far as time to bring down the turret is concerned, the pre 4.1 armor buff and the 4.1 flat reduction function very similarly.

3. Wouldn't it be a 4v4 if both teams feel that way?


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HarrisonOwns

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Senior Member

01-16-2014

Enforcing the meta is something you said you wouldn't do, and you just did it.


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Mandaari

Senior Member

01-16-2014

I think Morello mentioned that Riot didn't want this to be a permanent change and that you were looking for a better solution. Here's an off-the-top-of-my-head way to discourage large dives.

For the first X minutes towers grant stats to nearby allied champions proportional to the number of nearby enemy champions and inversely proportional to the number of nearby allied champions.

That way if you're outnumbered in lane you're given a small advantage, but if you're in a mirrored situation you're on equal footing.


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Solcrushed

Live Balance Designer

01-16-2014
3 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by wetPP View Post
so you are enforcing meta
We feel it opens up the meta, at least in a more interesting way. Now you have to weigh pros and cons when you are initiating a lane swap and your strategy will be different from your oppoenent's teams.