Regarding the Turret changes in 4.1

First Riot Post
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TL Pride

Senior Member

01-16-2014

What if, instead of top and mid towers reducing the damage they take, what if all towers gave some kind of debuff to enemies who enter the radius? Like have their armor and mag resist reduced, that way people will risk taking more damage to attack a tower/ dive an enemy under turret. It would also help with the bot lane problem when enemies force you away from your turret, if they enter the turret range they could get the benefit of zoning you out, but risk taking more damage if you get good poke onto them


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Leo the yordle

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueObjectivity View Post
It's fine for players to react to map asymmetry that coincidentally exists already by gathering more players around high value areas.

It's not fine for game designers to intentionally enhance that symmetry to discourage players from using alternative lane setups.
Except swaps are still viable, they just involve more risk. As they should. Keeping the standard meta also has risk, like forcing your duo laner against a much stronger one in lane. Would you rather have your Ashe go up against Lucian and Leona? Probably not, so now you can swap her into a much safer lane while also being able to deny the enemy top with the help of her support.

Or, the enemy could have a top like a Nasus or Jax. Surely delaying their late game a bit is preferable to giving them the chance to farm with much more freedom against your own top.

Pro teams can design their early game strategy around deciding when to swap against X team comp, or if it's even necessary, and then deciding when to swap back to normal. It's more complex than "Send duo lane into a 2v1. Then send the jungler to make it 3v1. Take the tower. Develop actual strategy from there"


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Leo the yordle

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by TL Pride View Post
What if, instead of top and mid towers reducing the damage they take, what if all towers gave some kind of debuff to enemies who enter the radius? Like have their armor and mag resist reduced, that way people will risk taking more damage to attack a tower/ dive an enemy under turret. It would also help with the bot lane problem when enemies force you away from your turret, if they enter the turret range they could get the benefit of zoning you out, but risk taking more damage if you get good poke onto them
Wouldn't effect the fast push meta at all, seeing as how barely any top laners can put out consistent poke damage in the first place, and surely not against a 1v3 with the enemy support and ADC.


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TrueObjectivity

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Except swaps are still viable
and then I stopped reading because you're strawmanning. I don't care what specific strategies are viable or are not (or weak/strong to any degree). Read my posts and reply to things I am saying.


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PallasAthens

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Remember everyone who tries to argue with Riot-This is their fault that they're forced to buff top and mid asymmetrically to bottom. Because they failed to make solo laners stronger(Nerf the XP gain for duo lane.) so single laners have a chance.

They say, 'Bu-bu-but fast push is disadvantageous to many champions who rely on a 1v1 lane!' Yes it is, when the different in EXP gain is negligible to the duo laners, and they can overwhelm the opposing laner when they're gaining levels just as fast.

Riot, you're putting a band-aid over who knows however many band-aids there are already to this prevalent issue of solo laners. And sooner or later, the wound will be infected because instead of cleaning out the source, you just stuck band-aids on top of each other. Right now it's bursting...it's not at it yet, but you're being EXTREMELY foolish in your decisions lately.

But keep band-aiding, saying 'We'll fix it guys' just like you do all the time, then never get to it. God knows you gave up on changing/nerfing/fixing the 'everyone needs flash' issue. You band-aided that by nerfing the CD, nerfing the distance, and everyone still took it. So you left it alone.

How long until you leave this issue alone? What, fixing one or two problems is too much for you? Get to it, gut the wound and stitch it up. Stop dillydallying around.


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Sephrinx

Senior Member

01-16-2014

lol so stupid

You should probably hot fix that permanent duration ****, cuz that is jus dumb.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
As long as there is no cost to pay for creating asymetric lanes, anyone who cannot handle one is barred since the opposing team will laneswap with impunity
Another benefit of laneswapping tends to be that you get a free farming carry Marksman, which is the primary DPS VIP in competitive games.

Now the other team may get this too, but botlane can tend to be more valuable for roaming and ganks due to the eventual presence of Dragon.

Additionally, the team who initiates the laneswap has likely practiced freefarming the marksman into carrying, and perhaps securing kills for the marksman.

In theory, the cost to pay for creating asymmetric lanes should be having to fight an asymmetric lane yourself-- but as you see that isn't a sufficient deterrent, because the initiating team tends to have better equipped their marksman lane.

So perhaps quite obviously, the main trouble is the power of the ranged autoattack at all points in the game.

It can easily push melee out of lane, and safely DPS lategame.

Most likely no amount of turret changes will alter this one defining characteristic of League upon which almost all current competitive strategies are based: Protect and Feed the Marksman


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Zastie

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Senior Member

01-16-2014

Players coming up with strategies? This is downright unacceptable! Nerf at once!


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Mike4Real

Senior Member

01-17-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
We feel it opens up the meta, at least in a more interesting way. Now you have to weigh pros and cons when you are initiating a lane swap and your strategy will be different from your oppoenent's teams.
I feel you guys as a company have really lost your way over the past 4 or so months, especially the balnce team. The issue here is that you have defined 'the meta' differently than what we are tying to say. Allegedly adding more potential champion picks into the pro level player pool does not expand 'the meta' in the way the players have come to understand it.

With most of these arguments we are making, 'the meta' is referring to the lane setup which is seemingly optimal at any given moment (currently its top, mid, duo bottom lane, and a jungler). It is not your place as a company or balance team to tell us what strategies to employ as optimal. Your job is to put all the checks and balances into place, then it is our job as a player base to decide the most efficient way to play the game. Do you understand how this change, even subtly suggesting to us a setup in which to play, is unacceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
Making the dragon spawn earlier and weaker is definately a way to solve this (and it is asymetric, as the solution needs to be).
This is very disturbing to me. Do you understand why this is entirely different? This would not be viewed as unacceptable by the player base as this current change. You may deem it asymmetric by whatever semantics you which, but this would be acceptable to us. I pray that you guys can see the reasoning behind that logic.


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ArcDriveFinish

Member

01-17-2014

I really don't understand why this has to be done. I also didn't understand the inhibitor changes in preseason either. Is Riot trying to purposely eliminate actual strategies teams come up with and just force everyone into the same old farm til lategame moshpit 5v5 every game or something?