Regarding the Turret changes in 4.1

First Riot Post
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Vahlen

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Riot keep enforcing your garbage meta, the champions pools in LCS are already incredibly stagnant and boring.


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The Shaco Bot

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
We do not think it will kill off lane swaps entirely. There should still be incentives to lane swap but teams will need to be much more calculated about when to do it
How will this not kill it?

If you switch lanes your bot tower will instantly drop. You either need to revert changes or not be so ****ing lazy that you do not just code into the game the same thing for bot tower, what will it take all of 5 minutes to do?


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Leo the yordle

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimusWesker View Post
The problem is that you keep referring to it as a "lane swap". It is not a swap. It is saying "Hey, I think our duo lane should go top. Or mid." By consciously making bottom tower weaker than the others, you are saying "YOU NEED TO PUT TWO PEOPLE HERE BECAUSE THE ENEMY MIGHT PUT TWO PEOPLE HERE." In loud, obnoxious capital letters. This is enforcing the meta. Why does the duo need to go bot? Because pros thought it was the best way to lane 2 seasons ago? You said it yourself -- the cost the laneswappers pay is leaving behind a 1v2 lane, and the counter is to go push the 1v2 lane down. Or hell, maybe the counter is some other crazy thing no one has thought of yet, because the pros don't ever get to sit down with a static game for months at a time.
These changes aren't saying that you need to take the duo bot lane. There are ways around that, primarily by sending your jungler bot in order to alleviate pressure and make sure that your top doesn't get completely zoned out. One could say 'well the enemy could just send their jungler as well', but that leaves their own top zoned out and at risk. This top laner could be someone who needs to have gold early in order to reach a late game where they can be most effective. Think of someone like Jax. Would you want him completely behind the enemy top in gold if their guy is being given chances to farm? No, of course not.


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Gulrix

Member

01-16-2014

Not only does this enforce the meta; it forces the duo laners to go into the bottom lane AND it removes the entertaining and strategic deep warding strategy to ensure you get the 2v1 lane you want. You don't need to baby the players. If a fast push strategy is dominating the meta (keep in mind s4 JUST started), then allow the players time to discover a counter, and let it play out. Since when do developers step in to stop a counterable strategy from being performed by inserting game design that is optionless for the player?


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TrueObjectivity

Senior Member

01-16-2014

The worst part about all this, Solcrushed, is that you and every other rioter I've seen post about this subject incorrectly thinks bottom lane had some mystical enchantment that made it the designated, official 2v2 lane, and doing anything else was initiating a deviation from what is natural or normal. That wasn't the case because there were no game elements that were intentionally created to make that the case. Congratulations on making that delusion into reality though.

Don't be mistaken; I don't actually mind playing by the Riot Season 4 Official Meta™. That doesn't mean I can pretend that the metagame isn't intentionally molded now, though. At the very least, please try to stop your fellow rioters from continuing to say that the design teams don't wish to control what kinds of strategies their players will use.


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Leo the yordle

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueObjectivity View Post
The worst part about all this, Solcrushed, is that you and every other rioter I've seen post about this subject incorrectly thinks bottom lane had some mystical enchantment that made it the designated official 2v2 lane, and doing anything else was initiating a deviation from what is natural or normal. That wasn't the case because there were no game elements that were intentionally created to make that the case. Congratulations on making that delusion into reality though.

Don't be mistaken; I don't actually mind playing by the Riot Season 4 Official Meta™. That doesn't mean I can pretend that the metagame isn't intentionally molded now, though. At the very least, please try to stop your fellow rioters from continuing to say that the design teams don't wish to control what kinds of strategies their players will use.
Bot became the 'official' home of the duo lane for two reasons.

1)Near dragon. The more bodies you have near there when it spawns, the better. Note: This is also why top laners in LCS run teleport.

2)Most mid lane champs are roamers. They want as many lanes to run to as possible, so they go mid so they can gank both lanes without having to go too far either way.

The only way this could not have been the case, is if Baron were essentially a second dragon.


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Ding an Sich

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonOwns View Post
Riot has kinda proven that they don't care what their playerbase thinks, they do what they want.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=3956405

Like closing threads with 750+ upvotes that directly call them out about their greed.^
If you want to have real discussions talk about things that are actually being talked about. The answer you're looking for has already been said by both IS and WC, they are preparing to present the case and situation at hand in the near future on the topic that thread brought up.

SO until then it has been answered unless of course it turns out to be like 6 months later based on Wizardcrab's response.


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Rockman

Senior Member

01-16-2014

I wanna point something out.

Dragon got weaker, and nobody was like WTF Y U MAKE EARLY TURRET PUSH STRONGER? Riot tries to band-aid fix it so we don't have perma 1v2 lanes every game for the first 5 levels w/o at least SOME risk and people complain about Riot "forcing" the meta. No, it's Riot attempting to put risk in a previously UNRISKY move. Just like how if I pick Jax top I take a risk of facing a 1v2, they take a risk of losing their bot tower when before it was first dragon.


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TrueObjectivity

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo the yordle View Post
Bot became the 'official' home of the duo lane for two reasons.

1)Near dragon. The more bodies you have near there when it spawns, the better. Note: This is also why top laners in LCS run teleport.

2)Most mid lane champs are roamers. They want as many lanes to run to as possible, so they go mid so they can gank both lanes without having to go too far either way.

The only way this could not have been the case, is if Baron were essentially a second dragon.
It's fine for players to react to map asymmetry that coincidentally exists already by gathering more players around high value areas.

It's not fine for game designers to intentionally enhance that symmetry to discourage players from using alternative lane setups.


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Leo the yordle

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockman View Post
I wanna point something out.

Dragon got weaker, and nobody was like WTF Y U MAKE EARLY TURRET PUSH STRONGER? Riot tries to band-aid fix it so we don't have perma 1v2 lanes every game for the first 5 levels w/o at least SOME risk and people complain about Riot "forcing" the meta. No, it's Riot attempting to put risk in a previously UNRISKY move. Just like how if I pick Jax top I take a risk of facing a 1v2, they take a risk of losing their bot tower when before it was first dragon.
GD has become exceptionally more anti-Riot recently. Don't know if you've picked up on that.