Regarding the Turret changes in 4.1

First Riot Post
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Hellsaw

Senior Member

01-16-2014

At what point does given the enemy a advantage on bot lane a strategy?

What Riot is basically trying to say is we are going to dictate how the game should be played because we found a flaws in there balancing.

So who else is already thinking of ways to break this badly?

I'm thinking on adc or/both junglier that don't really need flash take teleport so when wave gets shoved lock the minions under turrent in bot and destroy the turret either on a 4 v 2 or 3 v 1 and because mid and top take less damage they should stay healthy enough for you to get back in time or switch.


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TrueObjectivity

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Why not make top vulnerable instead, and maybe give dragon a little early combat strength nerf? Either send the duo top to defend your weak turret and try to attack the enemy weak turret, or send the duo to bottom for more dragon control. More decision making. It would accomplish everything you seem to want without forcing people to always have duo vs duo and solo vs solo.


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EckHearT Geminus

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by wetPP View Post
so you are enforcing meta
Exactly this

If Riot lied any more, they would be flatter than a pancake.


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ShiznazTM

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Believe me, the moment we feel we have a better change that accomplishes the goals, we will adopt the change.
AD Carries

Please just ruin their early game already.

It's the underlying issue, if it isn't, then your balance team, to me at least, is blind.

The only reason people can push is because of Ranged Attacks, characters with the most powerful Ranged Attacks at these states of the game, are Marksmen. Nobody else. Lulu/Mage can't rush down a turret, mages aren't safe and powerful that early in the game.

Only Marksmen are that powerful, that early, and it's literally because of their auto attacks.

Make ranged Auto attacks do less damage to turrets, and you have your solution. You can even limit the "Burden of Knowledge" by putting a buff on the tower that says; "Takes X less damage from ranged attacks."

It's simple, easy, and it solves your problem. It's the class or the game state your choice.


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Leo the yordle

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlighte View Post
Then why are you band-aiding something that only is relevant to less than the top .01% of players?

This is literally not only something that wasn't brought up to the community ahead of time, but it is also not a great fix by your own admission.
Because changes in regards to reeling back the power of the 3-man push strat need to be done. It's gimping the non-tanky/ non-sustain top laners due to how screwed they get by the constant harass. How often does Tryndamere get picked in pro play, for example? Jax? Kennen? If you do want to run these guys, you're hoping that you can figure out where their duo is going, otherwise you're playing with fire.

Quote:
And what about a Malzahar or similarly hard pushing champion trying to get their team an advantage in soloQ by pushing top or mid by themselves early?
Malzahar, per your example, is largely unaffected since the damage does not effect his voidlings damage. This would go for someone like Heimerdinger as well, I would suspect. You also seem to not be factoring in the XP advantage you can gain with these pushes.


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Rivini

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by exec3 View Post
Maybe if there was a summoners spell like garrison that caused turrets to attack faster and deal splash damage, then people can take that as a counter to 2v1 lanes (and dives in general which would be a good thing imo).
Fortify, never forget.


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LVNsNASmurf

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
2. If it is also on the bot lane turret it is no different from what we have currently. As far as time to bring down the turret is concerned, the pre 4.1 armor buff and the 4.1 flat reduction function very similarly.

3. Wouldn't it be a 4v4 if both teams feel that way?
Well, we do not like you making the outer turrets artificially different. Maybe if it's not different enough from what you have currently, then you need to re think it.

No it's not. Because what you do is wait until the enemy jungler goes top, then you have your co-ordinated mid and jungle meet bot, and boom, it's 4v2, double kill and turret before the enemy mid even arrives to the scene. If you think it's hard to do, you're clearly disconnected with the game.

Or you could implement a very simple, and effective method of stopping fast pushes. "For the first 10 minutes of the game, each outer turret gains 10 damage reduction against champion auto attacks for each enemy champion within 1000r" Boom, stops fast push in every lane. Boom, stops 4 manning turrets. Boom, doesn't penalise solo laners at all.


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OptimusWesker

Junior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
While the solution you propose affects the fast push, it still leaves lane swaps without a cost because you leave behind a 1v2 lane when you swap. As long as there is no cost to pay for creating asymetric lanes, anyone who cannot handle one is barred since the opposing team will laneswap with impunity
The problem is that you keep referring to it as a "lane swap". It is not a swap. It is saying "Hey, I think our duo lane should go top. Or mid." By consciously making bottom tower weaker than the others, you are saying "YOU NEED TO PUT TWO PEOPLE HERE BECAUSE THE ENEMY MIGHT PUT TWO PEOPLE HERE." In loud, obnoxious capital letters. This is enforcing the meta. Why does the duo need to go bot? Because pros thought it was the best way to lane 2 seasons ago? You said it yourself -- the cost the laneswappers pay is leaving behind a 1v2 lane, and the counter is to go push the 1v2 lane down. Or hell, maybe the counter is some other crazy thing no one has thought of yet, because the pros don't ever get to sit down with a static game for months at a time.

e: Maybe an important part of the game, especially at the pro level, is being able to draft a team and place your champions so that they will be able to extract the maximum amount of farm and best inhibit the opposing champions?


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bushviper336

Senior Member

01-16-2014

still don't get this purples top turret is the same as blues? shouldn't it be purples top n blues bot?

sense when the lcs teams go into a 2vs1 they switch top n bot normally :/


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HarrisonOwns

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Senior Member

01-16-2014

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4182057

On top of Riot lying about not enforcing the meta(this post proves they are), this thread outlines a good deal of their other lies.

Keeping it visible.