Regarding the Turret changes in 4.1

First Riot Post
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personwithface

Senior Member

01-16-2014

The thing I hate the most about this is that the entire reason for doing it is "competitive play". Well I have news for you, appx 0.000000000000000001% of your playerbase is a professional LoL player! This also heavily enforces the meta (which you guys claim you don't do, gimme a break). This is going to make top even more of a snooze fest now because it is forcing top laning phase to last longer. Someone made a great point earlier to make new items, or even new summoner spells, and that is the way to fix this I think. Bring back Fortitude!!!!


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Rockman

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFS All is OP View Post
I really think this could be solved in other ways.

Make duo/tri lane xp worse while increasing the xp range (so the 1 in a 2v1 situation isn't infinitely zoned).

Decrease gold reward from the outer turret and shift it to inner turrets.

Make the first turret shot more responsive to make aggro juggling harder in 3v1 dives.

Reduce early xp from 2v1/3v1 champ kills.

ETC.
They did that second one already, and increased turret damage. If you started changing how EXP works I don't think that would be good...


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Critkeeper

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo the yordle View Post
So what I'm getting from that is that it's better to have a game be worse than it could be just because it'll keep GD happy?

Riot has sort of proven time and again that's not how they do things.
Thats not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that public perception can and often does play a larger part than numbers do on balance. If a champion or strategy is perceived as weak, it will go underutilized even if it is actually strong-- people, even professionals, cannot perfectly hone in on the optimal solution instantly. We are iterative problem solvers by nature.

This just underscores the fact that perception is extremely important to any game. If the community at large perceives that RIOT doesn't ever want to innovate on their 1-1-2 format, then some players may become disenfranchised and quit. It doesn't matter if the balance team is really actually trying to create other strategies, balance strategies or mix up the format. Its perception. People can perceive things incorrectly, and they often do.

Being able to solve balance problems in such a way that doesn't cause the majority population, in their convoluted sense of reason, to draw conclusions that would confound the game, is a skill that is every bit as important if not more important than the standard gamut of skills by which a live balance designer is measured.


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Ragebeard Manric

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
Yes, and you should be gaining enough advantage from the swap to compensate for the increased chance of losing a tower earlier. Simple examples would be utilizing famous hard carries who have a rough laning phase (cough: Vayne). You will have to set it up with a top lane pick that is good at holding 1v2 pushes off.

Conversely, you can imagine a scenario where a team will want to counterpick the enemy's top lane with a relatively weak 1v2 laner. The team is forcing the enemy to value whether losing bottom tower is worth initiating a lane swap to shut down the counterpick. Compared to pre 4.1 where the enemy team will laneswap with impunity because they do not lose anything, making the pick a bad one.
What happens if the counterpick isn't weak at 2v1 laning? The top lane trifecta used in S3 Worlds rings a bell. I imagine a scenario where teams will just keep on using their reliable picks out of fear of lane swapping and opt to play softer counters that could handle the 2v1 should it occur... which is basically what we saw in worlds is it not?


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FFS All is OP

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockman View Post
They did that second one already, and increased turret damage. If you started changing how EXP works I don't think that would be good...
Why is changing around xp a bad thing? It isn't some sacred perfect formula.

And I'm not talking about turret damage. I'm talking about responsiveness from the first hit. You can stand with the target on you for a solid .5s or so without taking a shot.

also ninja edit: I believe they increased duo lane xp in the past maybe around late s2/early s3. That was probably around where this whole 2v1 thing started.

edit2:
found what i wanted-
Quote:
Other
V1.0.0.138 changes:

Experience split when two or more champions are present increased; situations with two or more champions splitting experience now earn 30.4% more total experience than solo, up from 26.1%.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...ence_(champion)


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you lovemee

Member

01-16-2014

the meta is getting boring already. Rito think up a new meta for a change and stop enforcing your 3 year old meta.


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Dr Hero

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Another thing this does its harder for teams to control the enemy top lane tank from getting absolutely massive even faster than they are now. Most professional teams are now going to last pick top lane to ensure they dont get countered and then just get a massive tank with 0 counterplay options.


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Starlighte

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
This is an inelegant change, we will be the first to acknowledge that. Your points about burden of knowledge etc. are also completely valid. Believe me, the moment we feel we have a better change that accomplishes the goals, we will adopt the change.
Then why are you band-aiding something that only is relevant to less than the top .01% of players?

This is literally not only something that wasn't brought up to the community ahead of time, but it is also not a great fix by your own admission. New players will have no idea of this discrepancy. And what about a Malzahar or similarly hard pushing champion trying to get their team an advantage in soloQ by pushing top or mid by themselves early? You literally are gimping other lanes in the hopes that this will force a specific mold for competitive play. That is neither fair, nor wanted by the community at large.

So if that is indeed the case as it seems to be, why are you forcing this change?


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Colmin The Wizar

Junior Member

01-16-2014

Some previous actions from Riot regarding the meta didn't bother me, but this one in particular is just too much. For the first time I agree the meta is being clearly enforced, and this never should be an option.


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Young Luv Murder

Senior Member

01-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
While the solution you propose affects the fast push, it still leaves lane swaps without a cost because you leave behind a 1v2 lane when you swap. As long as there is no cost to pay for creating asymetric lanes, anyone who cannot handle one is barred since the opposing team will laneswap with impunity
That makes no sense.

You are leaving behind a 1v2 where the turret on the one end has more reduction than the other because there are two champions opposing it. Just like the other lane.

I don't see why it would be bad to have "asymetric" lanes that are created when players decided to send more champions against the lane/tower. The lane itself has already become asymmetric by becoming a 1v2 lane. 1v1 lanes would still be symmetric obvs.

Besides, the change you have implemented has created asymmetry itself, and is literally telling people that you -must- put more champions down here because the turret is easier to topple then in the other two lanes.