Shutting down Carries

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Sefam

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Senior Member

12-30-2009

In the current form of the metagame, I notice that heroes with great potential with items such as Master Yi, Shaco, Cho'Gath and so on are extremely hard to shutdown while heroes like Tristana get eaten by them later in the game no matter how much she kills an enemy carry. At least, that have been my experience with Tristana.

Do you think shutdowning hard carries like Yi effectively even possible? If no, please post why and a possible solution.

P.S. 5v1 is not a way to shutdown a carry properly. Neither is getting fed more.


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AmyOverlord

Member

12-30-2009

Well, for Yi, he relies on his auto attack to do any damage, along with life steal. If you have a Katarina, who usually has high dodge, she will rape him.

One game, there was a 4-3-X Katarina who had good dodge while I was 29-2-X as Yi..once she started focusing me, I pretty much fed her. Why? Because I would sit there and try to take her down after her Shunpo + Death Lotus combo. She dodged 3 out of 5 of my attacks.

Blind also will kill Yi. He can't land a hit with blind. No hitting, no lifesteal. Poof. But his ult will get rid of it. Once it's on CD, he can be taken down. You can also silence him then blind.

Stun ftw.


Shaco..all you need is Thornmail and Oracles/wards. He relies heavily on his Deceive. He's INCREDIBLY squishy. If you have a tank or anyone who can take damage, let them get thornmail and watch Shaco kill himself in 2 seconds.

As for Cho'Gath..he has no defense, really. Just slow him and he's dead against a carry.


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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

12-30-2009

You're evidently playing a different Trist to me, I can give all but the best Yis a real run for their money. Shaco kind of gets turned into swiss cheese in general. In what game is Trist not a hard carry? <<

That aside, it does depend on who you're talking about, in my experience. (I wouldn't put Cho in that list, but that's just me.) A heavy assasin like Yi, Shaco, Twitch etc can be taken down by a smart pair of champions easily.

If that sounds silly, think about it. They're assassins. They're meant to be able to murder enemy champs in a fair fight. Focus them down in a team battle or gank them.

Kayle and Trydamere are two champs who could excel at anti-carry work, given the common trend of burst damage and/or lifesteal; both have invulnerability, slows and decent damage. Given the squishiness of the average carry, that's not fun.


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Sefam

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Senior Member

12-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basilisk9466 View Post
You're evidently playing a different Trist to me, I can give all but the best Yis a real run for their money. Shaco kind of gets turned into swiss cheese in general. In what game is Trist not a hard carry? <<

That aside, it does depend on who you're talking about, in my experience. (I wouldn't put Cho in that list, but that's just me.) A heavy assasin like Yi, Shaco, Twitch etc can be taken down by a smart pair of champions easily.

If that sounds silly, think about it. They're assassins. They're meant to be able to murder enemy champs in a fair fight. Focus them down in a team battle or gank them.

Kayle and Trydamere are two champs who could excel at anti-carry work, given the common trend of burst damage and/or lifesteal; both have invulnerability, slows and decent damage. Given the squishiness of the average carry, that's not fun.
Because I get scores like 12-5-9, 5-1-5, 6-3-5 and still get owned because my teammates are 1-3/10/1-3. Most of the deaths on those scores are done at the end of the game.


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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

12-30-2009

Well, the key words there are 'smart' and 'coordinated', which isn't always easy, especially if solo queueing. I find that only the best players become a genuine threat with carries if I'm playing in a good premade where we know each other's play styles well. I won't deny that sometimes, there is simply nothing that you can do against a smart, well played Yi. But you can say that about a lot of champions - I've had recent matches where (while solo queueing) we've been almost single-handedly owned by Heimer and then Warwick, both supposedly UP champs. Once someone gets sufficiently fed, getting back into the game can be really hard.

If I'm in that situation, I try to make the best of it. Get as much done as possible while the problem champ is dead (which should happen at least a few times...). Games are won by killing towers, not by killing champs. Though killing champs does make pushing easier, I've had one or two games where I've played comfortably fed carries, the rest of my team has decent KDRs, and yet we've still lost due to the enemy banding together and pushing smartly while we were weak.


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GroM6

Junior Member

12-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyOverlord View Post
Shaco..all you need is Thornmail and Oracles/wards. He relies heavily on his Deceive. He's INCREDIBLY squishy. If you have a tank or anyone who can take damage, let them get thornmail and watch Shaco kill himself in 2 seconds.
Thornmail... on a tank? Bad idea.


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WhiteMantisX

Member

12-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by GroM6 View Post
Thornmail... on a tank? Bad idea.
I think Thornmail is a good item for a tank ;-) Maybe if you are playing high ELO games, the tank will be ignored...but in public games they attack everything that comes near...and then a thornmail is a nice item.

Mantis


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Logo

Senior Member

12-30-2009

1. Stop it before it's a problem. Gank and gang up on carries early and mid game to keep them from getting fed. Also make sure you aren't giving up stupid kills to them early on.

2. Focus fire. Make sure your team is initiating well and you can get your DPS on their carry right away. Don't unload on the tank(s) or support when their carry is right there waiting to melt you all.

3. Exhaust. Other than your champion's disables Exhaust is a really good anti-carry summoner ability. It's a blind, snare, and armor debuff. Everything you need to take down a carry.

4. Control the Lizards. Don't let their carry get the lizard buff. That's just bad for everyone (on your team at least).

5. Support items. Frozen Heart and Aegis will help your team survive the carry. Make sure your support or tanks are getting them.

6. Don't drag the game out. A lot of people will let a mid game advantage sit rather than push it properly to victory. When you have your advantage you need to capitalize on it. Carries like Yi are 'harder' carries than many other champions. Late game given enough farm he's far ahead of most other champions in DPS. The balance to this is that he requires much more farm than other champions and develops much slower. You need to be using the time where your carry is stronger to push and take a dominating lead.


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Beegly Boogs

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Senior Member

12-30-2009

Tristina has rocket jump and buster shot. You shouldn't be dying in a 1v1 with equal items.


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rEv3

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Senior Member

12-30-2009

Executioner's Calling is the anti-carry item. They all rely on life steal to survive, take that away and they fold like the paper they are. I play Zilean and start with Exec as my starting item (lately, but it's been in my build for awhile) and will go toe-to-toe with Yi any day of the week. It works just as well on Mundo and tanks who rely on hp regen. Of course you do need the attackspeed to keep up with them, so I also grab Zerk boots and a recurve bow (which i build into different things each game)


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