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New Spell Vamp item

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Usami Nanyako

Junior Member

12-18-2013

I am bad


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BaronVonSlicey

Senior Member

12-18-2013

The problem that spellvamp is literally impossible to balance, simply because every champion has a different range of spells they can use.
Some champions can AoE stun a group for 2.5 seconds and then 100-0 a target with 2.5k+ health - healing for 400+ health in a second. Then there are others that deal continuous magic damage and heal for it innately - further increasing their normal healing capabilities. There are champions that have no resource costs, and thus can heal for free in lane without caring in the slightest, while all the other champions have to carefully manage their mana and cannot physically heal for as much as anyone without mana.
And Riot has pretty much always known this, and they've never let spellvamp be a good choice. Gunblade is super expensive as well as niche. And then there is WotA.
You want to know why they let spellvamp exist on an item with +80 AP? Its because you had to spend a whole lot of extra cash to get the aura, which didn't benefit you at all. And then, when a cheaper option with less stats came along - SotSW - everyone started buying it. The players themselves made the choice between an expensive, inefficient WotA and a cheaper, semi-efficient WotA, and Riot simply gave us what we wanted.
As for our current WotA, here are some fun facts:
1) It is cost efficient even without the mana regeneration.
If you are playing a manaless champion, it is still cost efficient for you to upgrade your Hextech into a WotA. I mean come on, thats like saying you shouldn't get Lichbane on Akali because it has mana - completely unjustified.
2) Funnily enough, manaless champs shouldn't have easy access to super easy combat sustain.
They already get damage with 0 cost for themselves - they have no mana to worry about like normal champs. So why should they get free healing as well? Plain and simple, manaless champs can use spellvamp way too well.
So, what could Riot possibly give a spellvamp item to both handicap manaless champs from buying it, and to help mana-based champions if they decide to purchase it? Oh right, the same stat that is already on the spellvamp item everyone bought anyway. Mana regeneration.

While of course its not the optimal case for Mordekaiser and Vlad - the optimal case for them would be broken and impossible for anyone else to deal with.


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Krosan

Senior Member

12-19-2013

BaronVonSlicey, Krosan, and 5lacker...

Spell Vamp Vigilantes!

(Ain't nobody gonna post about spell vamp on THIS board without our say-so)


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Mage Lord Nelber

Senior Member

12-19-2013

Quote:
BaronVonSlicey:
The problem that spellvamp is literally impossible to balance, simply because every champion has a different range of spells they can use.
Some champions can AoE stun a group for 2.5 seconds and then 100-0 a target with 2.5k+ health - healing for 400+ health in a second. Then there are others that deal continuous magic damage and heal for it innately - further increasing their normal healing capabilities. There are champions that have no resource costs, and thus can heal for free in lane without caring in the slightest, while all the other champions have to carefully manage their mana and cannot physically heal for as much as anyone without mana.
And Riot has pretty much always known this, and they've never let spellvamp be a good choice. Gunblade is super expensive as well as niche. And then there is WotA.
You want to know why they let spellvamp exist on an item with +80 AP? Its because you had to spend a whole lot of extra cash to get the aura, which didn't benefit you at all. And then, when a cheaper option with less stats came along - SotSW - everyone started buying it. The players themselves made the choice between an expensive, inefficient WotA and a cheaper, semi-efficient WotA, and Riot simply gave us what we wanted.
As for our current WotA, here are some fun facts:
1) It is cost efficient even without the mana regeneration.
If you are playing a manaless champion, it is still cost efficient for you to upgrade your Hextech into a WotA. I mean come on, thats like saying you shouldn't get Lichbane on Akali because it has mana - completely unjustified.
2) Funnily enough, manaless champs shouldn't have easy access to super easy combat sustain.
They already get damage with 0 cost for themselves - they have no mana to worry about like normal champs. So why should they get free healing as well? Plain and simple, manaless champs can use spellvamp way too well.
So, what could Riot possibly give a spellvamp item to both handicap manaless champs from buying it, and to help mana-based champions if they decide to purchase it? Oh right, the same stat that is already on the spellvamp item everyone bought anyway. Mana regeneration.

While of course its not the optimal case for Mordekaiser and Vlad - the optimal case for them would be broken and impossible for anyone else to deal with.


And AD champs that use mana or not don't use cheaper lifesteal builds that can all stack well enough for even better sustain, reaching beyond 100% damage to health back if done correctly? It's pretty hilarious to see it on a Riven or Sion, but damn... even with ignite they are still out healing your damage in 400-800 per second bursts, and if they add a Hyrda to the mix the healing is pretty much exponential depending on if your surrounded or not.

I see no qualm with adding newer AP Spellvamp item builds. It's the same mechanic as lifesteal, once you run out of the HP to sap or have no revenue to take from your a sitting duck. Not to mention, it's even harder for an AP user to actually spell vamp... your abilities still have a CD even if you spammed CDR and you still CAN be CC locked down to death easily. All AoE's and skillshots CAN be dodged, auto attacks cannot from ranged or melee. Seeing as how atk speed for every champ at level 18 reaches at least 1 attack per second, that's still greater dps and health back then that of almost every mage, who has at least a max CDR of around 1.5-3+ second CD on their most easily spammed ability.

Playing smart is an important role in this game, having an unfair advantage because your able to build/customize a certain way where others cannot, isn't meant to be a part of the game. It's why items change.


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Traxicus

Member

12-20-2013

Quote:
BaronVonSlicey:
Funnily enough, manaless champs shouldn't have easy access to super easy combat sustain.


And AD champs, being the chosen master race, can go from 20 health to full health by autoing a minion wave


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The5lacker

Senior Member

12-20-2013

Quote:
Traxicus:
And AD champs, being the chosen master race, can go from 20 health to full health by autoing a minion wave

COMBAT SUSTAIN.

Out of combat sustain, who gives a ****? It's out of combat. ADCs can only do that insanely late game, not during the laning phase, and past the laning phase it doesn't matter how much sustain you have out of combat, just how good you can teamfight and how well you can take objectives.

In combat sustain is where Lifesteal and Spellvamp are relevant, and for most mages...it just isn't helpful. If you're a burst mage, and you've cast all of your abilities, you're more or less out for the fight. Sustain isn't relevant for you. For the few mages it is relevant on, however, it's EXTREMELY relevant.


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